Author Topic: Getting new computer with SSD, where to put QB64, are there gotcha's  (Read 10905 times)

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Offline doppler

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Anybody with a brain knows SSD's are nice and fast readers.  But have a limited write life.  After so many writes it just won't write anymore.  So to get more life out of it things have to be in other places.  Things needing a new location (on a spinning HDD), are pagefile, swapfile, windows temp location, general temp location and any program that uses installed location to put temp stuff.  I won't go into; it there are ton's of articles explaining it all.

-----> I plan to install QB64 on the spinning disk one.  The question becomes is there a temp location created that QB64 may use during compile or creation that is not under the QB64 directory location? Remember the environment temps will be also moved.

BTW, if after reading my first paragraph you still think you don't have to do any of the things mentioned.  It's in your best interest to read about write life of SSD's.  I am unhappy enough I won't be able to de-fragment large files anymore. ie: seek times of HDD made that a plus.  SSD's have no seek time.
 

Offline SMcNeill

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Re: Getting new computer with SSD, where to put QB64, are there gotcha's
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2021, 09:19:05 am »
If its a dual drive system, I'd put it on the normal drive.  QB64 is notorious for reading a writing your whole program to disk with *each and every* keypress.  This insane use of writing, rewriting, overwriting, and writing some more, isn't all that good for a SSD.

IF the system just has a SSD, but has sufficient memory, then I'd allocate 2GB or so to a persistent RAMdrive, copy QB64 to there, and run it fully out of RAM.

If neither choice is viable, you just do whatcha got to do and live with it.  :P
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Offline doppler

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Re: Getting new computer with SSD, where to put QB64, are there gotcha's
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2021, 09:23:39 am »
It's not just a single SSD involved.  It will come with a standard HDD (secondary) and I plan to add two more "Large HDD's" as well.  Poor programming apps are known to use other locations.  Be it on a drive or the registry.  I have not seen anyway to move the registry to another drive.  So all the registry write will be SSD writes.
 

Offline SMcNeill

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Re: Getting new computer with SSD, where to put QB64, are there gotcha's
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2021, 09:25:36 am »
Then just put QB64 on your secondary HDD and you'll be golden.  👌
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Offline SpriggsySpriggs

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Re: Getting new computer with SSD, where to put QB64, are there gotcha's
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2021, 09:29:42 am »
I've got QB64 on my SSD right now. You'd have to do a whole lot of writing, even with QB64, to wear out your SSD. I might move mine to a HDD when I get my new PC, just because I won't need a super quick access to QB64
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Offline doppler

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Re: Getting new computer with SSD, where to put QB64, are there gotcha's
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2021, 09:46:55 am »
I've got QB64 on my SSD right now. You'd have to do a whole lot of writing...
That's the fallacy of SSD's.  People think it's not a problem because of the millions of write cycles.  I plan to use my computers at least for 8 years.  At the end-of-life, it's so outdated it's not funny.  Left unchanged you would be lucky to get three years out of a SSD.  Heavy user even less time.  The windows O/S is a known talker, be it the ethernet, monitor, speakers, usb's and HDD's.  It's the only way MS, decides it things stopped working (poor programing).  Every time somebody talks it get recorded somewhere.  Be it memory or HDD's.  Heaven help you if you decide to hibernate using the SSD.

I only plan to use my SSD for static apps and storage.  As little writing as possible.  Hopefully I can get 5 years out of the drive.

Offline Pete

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Re: Getting new computer with SSD, where to put QB64, are there gotcha's
« Reply #6 on: October 12, 2021, 10:44:21 am »
If its a dual drive system, I'd put it on the normal drive.  QB64 is notorious for reading a writing your whole program to disk with *each and every* keypress.  This insane use of writing, rewriting, overwriting, and writing some more, isn't all that good for a SSD.

IF the system just has a SSD, but has sufficient memory, then I'd allocate 2GB or so to a persistent RAMdrive, copy QB64 to there, and run it fully out of RAM.

If neither choice is viable, you just do whatcha got to do and live with it.  :P

Thee are times I wish we had the option to turn that script off. In other words, not have QB64 backup the program on every keystroke. I do appreciate the program "Recovery" it provides, and its probably linked to the "Undo" feature, too, but I don't need these features all the time.

I haven't looked into the IDE source code, probably due to my gluten intolerance. I am curious if it uses a single string for word processing. It would be very fast to binary save with that method.

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Offline Petr

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Re: Getting new computer with SSD, where to put QB64, are there gotcha's
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2021, 10:59:36 am »
I have the QB64 on a classic Seagate hard drive and operating system an SSD Samsung for several years and there is no problem with that. The laptop is also with SSD, there is also QB64 on SSD for about 3 or more years and everything still works nicely. SSD there is Samsung, is installed in the DVD-RW bay using a reducer. Primary harddrive there is also SSD (Kingston)

Offline doppler

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Re: Getting new computer with SSD, where to put QB64, are there gotcha's
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2021, 11:11:33 am »
I have the QB64 on a classic Seagate hard drive....

There is a reason, for the statements "Batteries not included and Your mileage may vary."  Ironically you can ask a launch tech about the shuttle Challenger disaster.  "It flew wonderfully right up to the time it exploded."

Here was an interesting project. http://dangerousprototypes.com/blog/2010/06/18/flash-destroyer-kit-protoype/
   

Offline Qwerkey

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Re: Getting new computer with SSD, where to put QB64, are there gotcha's
« Reply #9 on: October 12, 2021, 01:39:06 pm »
Amazing isn't it?  A solid-state (no moving parts) device wears out (rapidly) just by using it under normal conditions.  A 7200 rpm mechanical device (think of running your car at 7200 rpm continuously) effectively never wears out!  HDD amazing construction.

Offline doppler

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Re: Getting new computer with SSD, where to put QB64, are there gotcha's
« Reply #10 on: October 12, 2021, 01:51:46 pm »
HDD amazing construction.
You never had to play with Seagates first MFM production unit. 5 Megabytes. 5mbit serial transfer speed (the part that was MFM encoded)  The best part the case was 5" Full height and all plastic.  Noisy to boot.  BTW, plastic warps when it warms up.  Fun times.  Oh, best part $500 dollars apiece. 1980's money.

Offline Pete

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Re: Getting new computer with SSD, where to put QB64, are there gotcha's
« Reply #11 on: October 12, 2021, 01:53:26 pm »
My Samsung Hard Drive it spins really fast
My SDD drive can't spin and won't last
I've got a floppy and tech support said
You need the blue pill stop taking the red
Why can't we friends...

Pete
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Offline Cobalt

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Re: Getting new computer with SSD, where to put QB64, are there gotcha's
« Reply #12 on: October 12, 2021, 02:20:09 pm »
You have the quality of the SSD to consider too. My main system I program on is 10yo now with 2 SSDs. been using QB64 all that time too. By comparison I lost both my 3tb HDDs after only 3 years, and they were mainly static storage(not a whole lot of adding and removing data going on).

So You will probably upgrade your system before QB64 wears out your SSDs unless you went dumbfoundedly cheep on them.
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Offline Richard

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Re: Getting new computer with SSD, where to put QB64, are there gotcha's
« Reply #13 on: October 13, 2021, 06:29:14 am »
@doppler

As along the lines of what @SMcNeill suggests by using a RAM drive. I essentially only run QB64 off a RAM drive. I use a very different implementation of RAM drive to that of @SMcNeill. However in my implementation it takes about 7 seconds longer to start QB64 for the first time in a power up session but no wait if the computer is in sleep mode (rather than a restart).

If your SSD uses a SATA interface - you would probably notice significant speed increases (over the order of 10-17 times) compared to a spinning HDD. However if your SSD uses a PCIe interface (usually something like a M.2 drive) you may find that even greater speed increases are achieved over a SATA SSD.

RAM memory (e.g. for a RAM drive) is very much faster than SATA access however you may even find a speed performance decrease (compared to PCIe SSD).


Yes non-volatile SSD have finite write cycle lifetimes (however volatile SSD effectively supposed to have practically infinite write cycles e.g. referring to the RAM memory). A drawback of RAM memory (volatile) is if for instance the power is disconnected, the memory is lost forever - hence @SMcNeill going for persistent configuration.

On SSD vs HDD endurance - SSD (non-volatile) media relies on a Quantum physics phenomenon (spinning HDD is only a magnetic phenomenon) and the technology is relatively new (compared to magnetic technology). A big problem with the Quantum physics approach is that manufacturers are pushing the limits into memory/cost factors to make the product competitive to spinning HDD. It is well known that decreasing the size of each memory cell = small silicon die chip = statistically higher production yields. However decreasing the number of silicon atoms per memory cell causes a drastic reduction of write cycles - so as a SATA SSD is grouped into so called TBW (Tera Bytes Written), a usb flash drive (having smaller memory cells) pales into insignificance compared to say SATA SSD.

Of course if you were really wanting the ultimate non-volatile SSD, as far as TBW is concerned - there is a relatively much newer technology with significant improvements of TBW - but be prepared to spend as much as 10x $'s per byte then the better brands SSD.

On my computer I have QB64 stable build on the PCIe SSD (where Windows is) and the QB64 dev builds (which I use much more often than the stable builds) is on the RAM drive. The ram drive folder is only about 600 Mbyte for me - so I could safely get away with a 750 Mbyte RAM drive (only for QB64). The QB64 stable build (on C:\) is where ALL QB64 programs are stored only (including those from the dev builds). The RAM drive does get "hammered" by the QB64 IDE constantly rewritting of the per-keystroke editing of a program.




Offline Dimster

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Re: Getting new computer with SSD, where to put QB64, are there gotcha's
« Reply #14 on: October 13, 2021, 09:49:32 am »
So the moral of this story is ???? ..back up your data and programs on anything other than the SSD you are using? ... or is the point being made here is that for price and speed but not longevity SSD is good, HHD is better??