Author Topic: QB64 - decisions  (Read 3735 times)

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Offline Ivan

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QB64 - decisions
« on: June 17, 2021, 04:41:44 am »
I'm trying to understand QB64 a little better.

How is it decided about QB64 characteristics regarding syntax, keywords, features, future ect.

Who are the developers/programmers besides Fellippe Heitor?

How are donations handled?
Started with BBCBASIC in 1984 and UniComal. Some expirence wth c++ and database. For the last two years I had coded almost every day mostly in Basic.

Offline SMcNeill

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Re: QB64 - decisions
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2021, 05:48:39 am »
The developers are basically anyone who wants to get in GitHub and help add to, or alter, the source.  There's some of us who've did it enough, we've kind of been recognized as "official" developers, but anyone can help with the project.  Find something that's wrong, and you can fix it?  Join the GitHub and push the change.  Need a feature, and know how to add it?  Join the GitHub and push the change.

That's basically all it takes to develop QB64.  ;)

AS for the features and future, those are honestly, more or less, up to each individual contributor.  I needed data compression, so I added in the ZLIB compression routines with _INFLATE and _DEFLATE.  Kobalt needed routines to toggle and work with bits easier, so he added in _SETBIT and such.  It's basically been a case of "if you need it incredibly bad, and you know how to implement it, then feel free to do so"!   As far as I know, there's nobody setting any sort of master plan as to where the project should go in the future.  There's no "let's swap out glut and move to XYZ instead in the next year" type discussions that I'm aware of.  If someone wants to do such, they can always feel free to branch off from the main repo, do their thing, and then if what they've accomplished works and is proven better than what we currently have, their changes can be merged into the main branch.

As far as keywords and syntax are concerned, those are often discussed in Discord, before being implemented, to keep them "in style" with the language, and to make them something everyone can agree upon.  Me, personally, I tend to not care that much, so I'd be happy to add in commands like _DFLT to reduce typing, but everyone else prefers something more verbose and in the spirit of BASIC, like _DEFLATE.  Sometimes, someone will add a command where the syntax doesn't seem just "right" to everyone else, and then, since this basically an open-source project, somebody else will tweak it while it's still in the development build and change it to something more suitable.  And, in the case that the two people end up fighting back and forth, and they can't compromise, at the end of the day, the final decision rests in the hands of those who maintain the repo for us -- Fellippe and Luke.  (And maybe Stx?  I know he helps maintain the forums here, but I'm not certain if he does the repo itself, or not.)

Donations, as far as I know, go directly for server upkeep and such things.  Nobody is making any money off the project -- it's all a labor of love.  ;)
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Offline Galleon

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Re: QB64 - decisions
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2021, 08:54:00 am »
While I don't have the time or inclination to work on QB64 anymore, and while the prioritisation of features added has been... interesting, I have to say I'm super impressed with the team managing QB64. If I ever return, it would be to work on a fully browser-based version of QB64 (compiler, IDE, and programs), something that is possible thanks to recent advances in web browsers. But I have many priorities in life so there is a good chance I will be dead by the time that happens.

Offline STxAxTIC

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Re: QB64 - decisions
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2021, 09:01:36 am »
Quote
work on a fully browser-based version of QB64

Signed in solely to agree with this. DO IT!
You're not done when it works, you're done when it's right.

Offline SpriggsySpriggs

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Re: QB64 - decisions
« Reply #4 on: June 17, 2021, 09:09:16 am »
Hello, @Ivan ! Like Steve said, being a developer just takes enough GitHub commits. I don't know enough to implement a new keyword or anything (but I hope to do so one day (shellpipe)). Galleon had made a set of rules, for lack of a better term, as to how QB64 should be evolved and updated. I don't know off-hand where that post is. The role I've taken as "developer" so far is trying to be active on the GitHub to reply to issues and seek out bugs. I might not necessarily know myself how to fix said bug but I work with Fellippe and Luke to track them down. When I'm not seeking out bugs I try to write API libraries. Since QB64 has a C/C++ backbone you can use plenty of external libraries to really expand your programs.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 09:14:13 am by SpriggsySpriggs »
Shuwatch!

Offline SpriggsySpriggs

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Re: QB64 - decisions
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2021, 09:10:17 am »
If I ever return, it would be to work on a fully browser-based version of QB64 (compiler, IDE, and programs)
Signed in solely to agree with this. DO IT!

I second that!
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 09:12:15 am by SpriggsySpriggs »
Shuwatch!

FellippeHeitor

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Re: QB64 - decisions
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2021, 09:21:14 am »
Galleon had made a set of rules, for lack of a better term, as to how QB64 should be evolved and updated. I don't know off-hand where that post is.

I like to keep it at hand:

  [ You are not allowed to view this attachment ]  

While I don't have the time or inclination to work on QB64 anymore, and while the prioritisation of features added has been... interesting, I have to say I'm super impressed with the team managing QB64.

🤩

Offline Ivan

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Re: QB64 - decisions
« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2021, 09:53:21 am »
Thanks SMcNeill for clarifying and others.

I know very little of Github or Discord server and fail to see, how it's better to use Github/Discord, instead of having "the stuff" being stored on qb64.org?

If I understand correctly QB64 is a "democratic organism" and the status is what contributing programmers want QB64 to be.

Regarding donations I expect accountants who are responsible for spending.
Started with BBCBASIC in 1984 and UniComal. Some expirence wth c++ and database. For the last two years I had coded almost every day mostly in Basic.

FellippeHeitor

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Re: QB64 - decisions
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2021, 09:58:29 am »
Donations and Patreon funding go to domain maintenance, hosting, backup services. We use GoDaddy, Buzzsprout, Amazon Web Services.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2021, 10:00:01 am by FellippeHeitor »

FellippeHeitor

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Re: QB64 - decisions
« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2021, 10:06:54 am »
When donations increase, we increase quality of services/amount of data, etc. When they go down, we decrease the quality of services/amount of data, etc.

Offline Ivan

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Re: QB64 - decisions
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2021, 05:51:54 am »
@FellippeHeitor

Makes sense, but I'm curious to know how the money flow is administered and by who.

If I make donations is it especially because of the great community. Regarding Basic, I think QB64 have most users.

What I think would make QB64 more appealing at least for me:

1. Immediate mode especially because of compile time. The Basics I have used was very fast to run and because of my bad spelling it's very nice.

My current (paided) basic compiles "Hello World" in a blink of second and immediate mode even faster.

Even Code Blocks using C++ (about 300 lines) #include <iostream>, #include <graphics.h>, #include <math.h> compiles in less than a second.

2. Arrays inside types.
3. Increment and decrement.
4. The debugger is not intuitive for me.

I would love to add features to QB64, but I don't have the skills.

I really like the strict setting (saves time) and it reminds of an old Basic/Pascal like language named UniComal. If I could not type a line with correct syntax I had make it as a commend line. UniComal also had arrays in structure and could make instances with arrays.
 
Started with BBCBASIC in 1984 and UniComal. Some expirence wth c++ and database. For the last two years I had coded almost every day mostly in Basic.

Offline George McGinn

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Re: QB64 - decisions
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2021, 01:02:18 pm »
I like this idea. QB64 can then also become another web scripting language.

I've worked on another web scripting language in recent years. An old product called COBOLScript. Matt Dean made COBOL into a web-server scripting language as well as a COBOL compiler.

With the right web service (or like I used to have my own dedicated servers on the Internet), you can run executable binary files as web scripts.



While I don't have the time or inclination to work on QB64 anymore, and while the prioritisation of features added has been... interesting, I have to say I'm super impressed with the team managing QB64. If I ever return, it would be to work on a fully browser-based version of QB64 (compiler, IDE, and programs), something that is possible thanks to recent advances in web browsers. But I have many priorities in life so there is a good chance I will be dead by the time that happens.
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Technical Council on Software Engineering
IEEE Standards Association
American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS)

FellippeHeitor

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Re: QB64 - decisions
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2021, 03:44:22 pm »
@Ivan I currently handle the donations - which means I pay for all expenses through my credit card and donations get sent to my PayPal account.

We are at a comfortable place right now, so I thank everyone for their support.