Characters incongruity

[FellippeHeitor]

More developers are always welcome.

However, your belief we should act a different way - and especially the tone with which you bring it to the table - is what's annoying right now.

I appreciate your intentions, but right now you are not properly making us wanna collaborate with you.

[Cobalt]

I'm with Fellippe.

Your being rude.

If you want to develop a native language version of the IDE for your region then go ahead and branch the GITHUB.

We have no problems with people working on addons or additions for QB64. As long as it does not break things, or stray(too far) from qb64's original vision.

One example is the BIT routines; _SETBIT, _READBIT, _RESETBIT, and _TOGGLEBIT.  QB64 did not come with these, and I needed them. So I put forth the effort and learned enough to create them. A very limited number of QB64 users use them so it wasn't a big enough reason for the others to put forth the effort themselves. And that is fine, I don't expect others too. Which Doesn't mean I don't ask(ARRAYs in UDTs please) but I don't put them down, or QB64, because they don't jump on it with disregard.

QB64 is a hobbyist project, always has been always will be. Nobody gets paid for the work they do on the code, any money from donations or sales of 'stuff'(which really doesn't amount to anything) goes into keeping this website up so it doesn't become another .NET and so we don't have to put up with seeing ADs every time we visit the forum, along with a few other upgrades for the site.

As a community, I believe anyway, we appreciate all our members. But its also a community, not a cult. So you don't have to stay.(Heck even Galleon left, and it was his project to begin with!!!) If your not happy you are free to go and find something that does make you happy. It remains your choice as to whether you go under good terms or not. And we have had both, unfortunately. I for one miss any of our users that depart, they all added something to the community. Even if it was just head shaking absurdity.

Okay, that is enough of that. Back to work.
Have a nice day.

[SMcNeill]

Personally, I just don’t understand WHY you keep asking for folks to change QB64 so it’ll DO WHAT IT ALREADY DOES.

Case in point, you *ALWAYS* bring up, “If you separate the IDE from the compiler, like any other language….”

The issue is: IT IS!  IT HAS BEEN!  YOU CAN USE ONE, WITHOUT THE OTHER!!  YOU’VE BEEN ABLE TO USE THEM INDEPENDENTLY FOR AGES!!!

If you just want the compiler, then code in whatever IDE you like — hell, Word, Open Office, Wordpad, and even Notepad works — and then just call QB64 from the command line and compile your text file.  Rho even offers all the necessary tweaks to have syntax highlighting and such with Notepad++, if you like to use it as he does.

If you want to use the QB64 IDE as nothing more than a basic text editor, then simply check the option to “Disable syntax checking” and feel free to type your favorite recipe, novel, or stardate entry into it, if you want.  When finished, save it as a text file, and that’s it.

You *CAN* use the IDE without the compiler.  You *CAN* use the compiler without the IDE.  How the hell can you get more separate than that??  Both *ARE* quite capable of being used without the other already!!

And yet, *EVERY* time you show up on the forums, you painstakingly explain how QB64 could be better if we’d just do things your way and separate the IDE and compiler….

Honestly, *I* couldn’t do your request, even if I wanted to.  I can’t conceive, in my brain, any way to make the two anymore independent and exclusive than they already are.

[Fifi]

@Fellippe, Cobalt, SMcNeill & others.

Hello all,

I am so sorry if I have hurt any of you because it was never my intention to be "rude" (and it is not in my upbringing).

For those who don't know me, I'm not really a "coder", never was, ever will.

My background of more than 40 years in the microcomputer industry is that of a software publisher and my job was to be the designer of the applications that the group that I had founded published (3 companies in the USA whose head office, 2 subsidiaries in France, 1 in England, 1 in Germany and more than 70 distributors in the world), products which were developed by my team of developers according to the specifications and the architects that I gave.

As an example, the last software I designed was the Remote Services Management suite for DOS, Windows and OS / 2 which has sold over 120 million copies worldwide.

Another example was Turbo Text Professional developed in Turbo Basic at Borland (Scotts Valley) with my late dear friend Bob Zale (sole developper of TB, then Power Basic) and my partner Medhi Ammaoui.

The other part of my job was also to enter into OEM agreements with large partners such as Compuware, IBM, or ICL and to negotiate licenses with large groups such as Amadeus, for example (80,000 copies alone).

It is therefore in view of the enormous potential that I see in QB64 that I have dared to make repeated proposals a few times.

I understood that the very few developers who continue to develop this superb tool are a small group of hobists and do not plan to embark on a larger adventure and I would therefore refrain in the future from any proposal that may offend you even if for me it makes good sense.

So, as for my involvement in your project with regard to my skills, my participation may be limited only to translation and localization, if one day that is technically possible.

I therefore offer you my sincere and most flattering apologies and the administrator of this site can close this thread.

Cordially.
Fifi

[TempodiBasic]

Hi guys and gals
fine to see all us sit at the table of discussion about QB64 and its future!
It is a powerful thing if it is able to take us here to discuss with energy for each own idea about its entity and evolution!

Seeing at the different points of view it seems to be at the centre of a crossroads, everyone comes from a country  bringing with him/her own personal experience.  Indeed this thread let me remember  the phrase of Ghandi: "Anger is a gift"  with this explanation:

“La rabbia sta alle persone come la benzina alle automobili: è il carburante che ci fa muovere per raggiungere un posto migliore. Altrimenti ci mancherebbe la spinta necessaria ad affrontare una sfida. È l’energia che permette di reagire a un’ingiustizia.”

My bad translation (I'm learning English for a natural speaking)
Anger is to persons as gasoline is to cars: it is the oil that let us move to reach a better place. Without it we have no spin to face a challenge. It is the energy to re-act to an injustice.

Mr Google translate so: “Anger is to people like gasoline to cars: it is the fuel that moves us to reach a better place. Otherwise we would lack the drive to face a challenge. It is the energy that allows you to react to injustice. "

Well, it seems that discussion (or exchange of points of view) has arrived at these trues
1. QB64 community is not a place where child cry and mum and dad do everything to stop that crying, here requests are welcome, but no orders. In the measure that a question is very interesting and meet the qb64's original vision, it can be implemented by official developers. In the meanwhile a good coder can develop its own solution to a singular request of a member of QB64 community. This solution can be included into QB64 official after an evaluation of QB64 official developers.

2. new official developers are welcome. The enrollment  is each Sunday , you can post your curriculum vitae at this email   volunteers@qb64.org, please don't spam. If you have no response within 7 days you can claim the help of Pete with his guns or laser sabre so justice will win. For now roles aren't yet defined.

3. Marketing consulting are not requested but if they are made for free please post it as private messages here Future@QB64.org and not public discussion, moreover take as first point the needs of actual official developers.

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my customized answers
@Pete

Oh wait, did someone mention Italy in this thread? Yes! Well, that makes this a whole different story. The Development should jump on this immediatamente!

Hi Pete I remember you that in our USA, Mike Corleone has made a proposal that cannot be refused! Think at the horse.
So you mustn't do it immediatamente but only " 'esubbet pecchè mammà nun saddà dispiacè' ""  And if you find this reason not enough I'll send you the Pope!

Apart all these jokes...

Certainly if we had developers from China, Japan, and other countries working on the project, things might be different. Certainly if we had millions of users world wide, the same would apply.

I agree with these two points of view
  1. if we have developers from.....so many countries working on the project....
 
      IMHO  there are so many clever coders into the community, (except me), and is it clear the path to be a good developer?
      Is it a cooperative or cooptive role that of developer? Are there rules to cooperate without waste your time and time of
      official developers?  Must the candidate get the general consensus of official developers or must he only be cooperative?
      These can be important answers to know.
 

  2. if we ha millions of users world wide....
      in that case  the actual developers would be driving a millionary no profit society... I sometimes think to Ubuntu community or 
      to OpenOffice community just for example...or to Minecraft community before it was got by Microsoft
      a QB64 visibility on Microsoft Store will condam you to the acquisition by Microsoft as soon as you got half million of followers

Thanks to let me talk with you.


@Petr  & SmcNeill

I agree totally with you! There are now many ways to solve the issue. I have posted the links in my response to Bartok questions. Sorry Steve I have not linked your library because originally Bartok talked about QB64IDE and not only I/O of QB64.



@SMcNeill
dear Steve you're right and I agree totally with these sentences

You * CAN * use the IDE without the compiler. You * CAN * use the compiler without the IDE. How the hell can you get more separate than that ?? Both * ARE * quite capable of being used without the other already !!

simply check the option to "Disable syntax checking" and feel free to type your favorite recipe


So today if I use another text editor (say Notepad ++ or Dav IDE) I can compile my source code! But I cannot have syntax cheching, I cannot use _Option Explicit and _Option ExpliciArray. Moreover with the next version of QB64 I cannot use the Debug mode that is in refining state.
At the end something I loose using an external IDE.
Are these features, that today I loose using another IDE,   in the compiler section or in the IDE section? Because if they are in the compiler section there is no issue because I can interact with the compiler to get syntax checking, _option checking, debug checking.

Thanks for let me talk about these topics with you
PS I find very interesting your I/O library and I have posted time ago the sub for European ASCII codemap, It works in my little attempt of code for my language but it seems cover Western Europe ASCII that can be tested.



@Fifi
QB64 arises in you strong passions! But passions are like a running horse, it must be under control.
I find very useful your tool for installing QB64, vWatch and Inform for Linux OSes.


PS
LOL It seems that I have found a bug in Html of post going over 6000 characters!

[Petr]

Thanks for reaction, @TempodiBasic,

I thought deeply about this problem. Since the IDE is based on US ASCII, implanting non-US characters would mean writing a special feature that would make the text composed of images, because the IDE must not be remapped to maintain its appearance.

Good. But then how the hell to read unicode characters from the keyboard? If save characters as images and compose text from them in the IDE ... that's a lot of work, but will I even be able to read unicode characters according to user settings without remapping the ASCII table?

I was just thinking. Let never occurs to anyone that I would like to try it.

[SMcNeill]

Thanks for reaction, @TempodiBasic,

Good. But then how the hell to read unicode characters from the keyboard? If save characters as images and compose text from them in the IDE ... that's a lot of work, but will I even be able to read unicode characters according to user settings without remapping the ASCII table?

My KeyHit library can be configured to work with unicode input, but it requires a graphical screen to function properly with QPrint.  The QB64 IDE is a text screen, so your idea of images won’t work. 

As text, you’ll never have more than the 256 characters of an extended-ASCII set to display, meaning remapping would be essential to support a small subset of unicode characters — and I really don’t know of anyone who’d be willing to undertake such an extensive job to remap for every keyboard/language.  It’s simply easier for folks to use a different IDE in those cases, than it is to try and rewrite the existing one we already have.  Honestly, it’d be easier to build a new IDE from the ground up, than it would be to rewrite the existing one, in my opinion.

If the current ASCII code pages don’t fulfill one’s needs, then they’re honestly better off to find a different IDE to program in.

[Petr]

Thank you for clarifying the situation, @SMcNeill. As I wrote above. I am satisfied with the current IDE, I just thought about the technical feasibility of such an adjustment.