Author Topic: Which Linux distribution to run QB64?  (Read 13575 times)

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Offline mohai

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Which Linux distribution to run QB64?
« on: November 19, 2021, 01:32:28 pm »
Hello all,

First of all, I want to thank Felippe and all the developers of QB64. It is simply great.
I think it is great to give your old Basic applications a new life in newer systems, as QB does not work anymore in modern Windows (although DOSbox exists...).

Well, the issue here is I am working in an application in the IDE for Windows but, I would like to make Linux and MacOS compatible. So, I need a Linux environment to test it.
I managed to get an old laptop (Dell Latitude D310) and have Xubuntu installed on it.
For OS, I chose Xubuntu, as this version is 32-bit and suits perfect for this computer.

The problem is: I cannot get the IDE running. Everytime I open a file, it just closes.
I was able to copy/paste some test into the editor, compile and run but, it just keeps closing from time to time.
Inform does not work either. It just opens, wait for a minute, and then closes. I cannot use it.

I am not sure if the 32bit version of QB64 is stable (I hope so...), or my Linux is buggy or even my computer is failing...

Then, the question is: Which Linux version is suitable for QB64?
I would want a 32 bit version, if possible.
These are the characteristics of my laptop (I hope they are enough for QB64)

- CPU: Pentium M at 1.73 Mhz (Pentium Centrino)
- RAM: 1 Gb
- HDD: 60 GB


Cheers !

Offline johnno56

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Re: Which Linux distribution to run QB64?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2021, 03:21:20 pm »
The Dell Latitude was introduced back in 1994 and is still available. Like all old laptops, they are either superseded or dropped, eventually being no longer supported. But, that being said, this does not mean that the machine is useless. Which distro to use for QB64? I am not QB64 tech but you will need to do some homework. First: You need to know the minimum specifications that QB64 requires and the specifications of the laptop/desktop that is to run QB64. If memory serves correctly, QB64 could run on a WinXP machine... That was 2001 to 2014... I would guess that if your machine was made around then, you may be ok.

According to Wikipedia, Dell Latitude "D" series started at model D400... A lot of the "D" series were recalled due to potential battery problems.

As to the distribution. Linux is very clever at detecting the hardware of its target machine. Just about any distro will run... but on older machines the performance will vary greatly. Lighter versions of Linux were primarily created for "low resource" machines. Xubunu or Lubuntu would be good choices. But will they run QB64? Light versions are light for a reason. A lot of "stuff" has been removed or replaced so as to run on older machines. Even though your machine can run light versions of Linux, I have my concerns, that it may be under-powered to properly run QB... But that's my guess...

The QB64 team will know the minimum requirements for QB64 and should give you a clearer answer than mine.

I hope that I have not caused any confusion...

J
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Offline johnno56

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Re: Which Linux distribution to run QB64?
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2021, 03:59:56 am »
Looks pretty good. Could be worth a shot...
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Offline Dav

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Re: Which Linux distribution to run QB64?
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2021, 07:01:58 am »
Q4OS does look good. Kind of looks a little like windows 2000 to me. I’m going to try it on an old laptop of mine.

- Dav

Offline George McGinn

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Re: Which Linux distribution to run QB64?
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2021, 07:32:30 pm »
@mohai

I agree with @Dav and the others. I would go with what is called a lightweight distro, one that does not need lots of resources like memory or faster CPU's or even large storage devices.

I know many might feel that ranking Linux distro's by weight can be subjective. I agree in part.

So here is a resource that can help you (or anyone else) understand how the the distro's are rated by resources needed:

https://embeddedinventor.com/lightweight-vs-heavyweight-distros-a-comparison/
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Offline Dav

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Re: Which Linux distribution to run QB64?
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2021, 10:29:45 pm »
I tried the Q4OS Trinity & Plasma versions today from a Live USB Boot, and they both ran OK on my older ThinkPad. I settled using the Q4OS Windows Setup tool to use it alongside my Windows and not worry about re-partitioning anything. Also it will be easy to uninstall it if I want to get rid of it (just run uninstall from windows).  I just setup QB64 on it and it runs/compiles fine.

Thanks for sharing the link to Q4OS.  Solid distro.

- Dav

Offline Dav

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Re: Which Linux distribution to run QB64?
« Reply #6 on: November 22, 2021, 08:08:22 am »
Thanks, @BSpinoza. That’s cool. I haven’t intstalled Wine yet, but I am dual booting Windows so I haven’t needed it, but maybe will give Wine a try.

I installed both desktops, Plasma and Trinity. I got QB64 working under Plasma, but when I switch desktops to Trinity QB64 wouldnt compile, I had to reinstall the libraries. Didn’t realize the system internals are so different under each.

I prefer Trinity with the Classic Menu system, it’s like Windows 2000 which is my favorite OS.

- Dav

Offline johnno56

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Re: Which Linux distribution to run QB64?
« Reply #7 on: November 22, 2021, 02:46:15 pm »
Dav,

If you are dual booting, may I suggest, that you forego the installation of Wine. I personally use Wine to run the programs that Linux just does not have. It's rare. But it happens. WineHQ has responses from users running Windows programs via Wine and has a scaled or graded system of how well it runs... Do yourself a favour and run Windows programs on Windows.... My opinion... lol
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Offline Dav

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Re: Which Linux distribution to run QB64?
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2021, 08:00:01 pm »
@johnno56: Ok. But I'm so blown away with linux, I probably will wipe out windows all together on this laptop and end up trying Wine.   Q4OS plus the XPQ4 Desktop kit discussed here suits me perfectly, and I'm not missing windows at all.  Not saying I'm done using the windows version I own (Win7), but I'm sure done thinking of upgrading beyond that. 

Just to keep this on topic, QB64 works great in Q4OS.  _ICON isn't working in it however.  @mohai: If your laptop can run the Q4OS 32-bit trinity version, grab the XPQ4 for it too and it will look almost like running windows.   

- Dav
« Last Edit: November 22, 2021, 08:05:16 pm by Dav »

Offline George McGinn

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Re: Which Linux distribution to run QB64?
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2021, 09:31:05 pm »
All Right!

With @Dav switching over to Linux, the market share just went from 5.99% to a full 6% !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Nobody cares how much you know, until they know how much you care. --- Teddy Roosevelt

@johnno56: Ok. But I'm so blown away with linux, I probably will wipe out windows all together on this laptop and end up trying Wine.   Q4OS plus the XPQ4 Desktop kit discussed here suits me perfectly, and I'm not missing windows at all.  Not saying I'm done using the windows version I own (Win7), but I'm sure done thinking of upgrading beyond that. 

Just to keep this on topic, QB64 works great in Q4OS.  _ICON isn't working in it however.  @mohai: If your laptop can run the Q4OS 32-bit trinity version, grab the XPQ4 for it too and it will look almost like running windows.   

- Dav
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Offline SMcNeill

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Re: Which Linux distribution to run QB64?
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2021, 09:57:47 pm »
If we're honest, there's only a few main reasons why people stick with Windows:

1) Microsoft Office.  It's honestly not that grand, but folks learn it at work and don't want the hassle of learning a different interface.  Nowadays, there *are* ways to get Office on Linux, but many folks aren't willing to take the effort to sort out how to do so, which leads to point two:

2) Plug and Play operation.  Not just for hardware, but software as well.  For most cases with windows, you download an installer, click it, and it does all the rest.  On Linux, it's a case of "sudo apt-get install *various packages*", like mentioned in the original posts above, which leave folks scratching their heads in puzzlement.  Plug it in, and it works, is a STRONG selling point for Windows apps and software.  Heck, even look at QB64 itself -- our Windows package is 100% ready to go when unzipped; the Linux versions require download of various support libraries which an user may, or may not, already have installed.

3) Version compatibility./portability.  Apple obsoletes stuff after just a few generations.  Linux swaps important cores and features out regularly.  Programs wrote for them today may, or may not, work tomorrow.  (Apple has already deprecated OpenGL support.  I imagine in a few more OS iterations, it'll end up Obsoleting it completely, rendering QB64 completely unusable on it.)  Windows -- regardless of version -- runs the same programs.  If your game ran on 32-bit Windows XP, chances are it still runs on Windows 11.  An EXE is an EXE, and it's portable to any machine that will run an EXE.  A Linux binary....  basically runs on the machine it was compiled on.



IF Linux was "Linux", like Windows is "Windows", everyone would use it.  Problem is, Linux is a thousand various branches of different versions of the same thing and no two are promised to be compatible.  You can compile on Q4OS, but the binary you create may not run on Ubuntu, Mint, or RedHat... 

And it's that uncertainty that keeps most folks from using Linux as their main work machine.  After all, at the end of the day, all you want to do is send a simple screensaver you wrote to your niece for X-mas...  You don't want to have to send the file AND play tech support for two hours to get it to working properly on her machine.  😉
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Offline Dav

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Re: Which Linux distribution to run QB64?
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2021, 10:11:04 pm »
You can compile on Q4OS, but the binary you create may not run on Ubuntu, Mint, or RedHat... 

And it's that uncertainty that keeps most folks from using Linux as their main work machine.  After all, at the end of the day, all you want to do is send a simple screensaver you wrote to your niece for X-mas...  You don't want to have to send the file AND play tech support for two hours to get it to working properly on her machine.  😉

Woah, didn't know that...

- Dav

Offline johnno56

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Re: Which Linux distribution to run QB64?
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2021, 10:15:41 pm »
Dav,

Whenever I upgrade to the next version of my OS, I usually install it on another drive, transfer essential files, and then put the old OS aside. My rule of thumb... If I do not access the old OS say for a month or so, then I can recycle the old OS drive. My point being: Retain your dual boot until you find that you are no longer accessing Windows. Then decide as to whether to keep Windows or not...
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Offline George McGinn

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Re: Which Linux distribution to run QB64?
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2021, 08:07:30 pm »
I'd like to add some more detail to what Sam said. I may make a mistake trying to simplify something very technical. I apologize in advance if I make a mistake. Please correct me.

As Sam states, binaries "MAY NOT" run on different distro's, but it isn't because of Linux itself. While I agree Linux isn't a plug and play OS like Windows, ALL distro's use the same kernel from the Linux Foundation (https://www.linuxfoundation.org/). Yes, Arch Linux does incorporate the newest release of the kernel, whereas Ubuntu, Mint and others use a stable release behind the latest and greatest.

All else being equal, creating a binary in Ubuntu using GCC should run theoretically on all Linux machines.

What also needs to be considered is your hardware's architecture. Are you running on a i386, i686, amd64 or a x86_64 system? Or are you running on a M1, ARM or armhf hardware? 32-bit or 64-bit system? Maybe even on an older i286 running 16-bit?

When GCC creates the binary, it takes the libraries from your machine instruction set based on your hardware. So if I compile a QB64 program on my x86_64 machine running Ubuntu, you should be able to run it on any distro running on a x86_64 machine, all else (GUI and display server as an example) being the same. If you try to run it on an i386 machine, it will not work. Same goes for a M1 (Apple's ARM processor) or an ARM or ARMhf architecture. Or an i386 running 32-bit instead of 64-bit.

Even GNU says:
Quote
We are often asked about pre-compiled versions of GCC. While we cannot provide these for all platforms, below you’ll find links to binaries for various platforms where creating them by yourself is not easy due to various reasons.


Here is a link to a list of specific GCC libraries based on host platforms: https://gcc.gnu.org/install/specific.html

If you want to know what processor you are running on in Linux, in a terminal type in "uname -m" and it will display something like x86_64 or i386. And yes, while the i386 instruction set is a subset of the x64 instruction set, you can't run x64 in an i386 architecture.

If you want to read about processor compatibility, an excellent article is: http://www.aliencoders.org/content/basic-information-about-i386-i686-and-x8664-architectures/. This does not

The more libraries that GCC uses in your binary from your architecture type, the less compatible it will be with other systems.

Another factor is whether or not I incorporate GUI components from one Linux distro. Say in Ubuntu I develop a program that uses GNOME for my GUI (gdialog or now Zenity). My binary from Ubuntu will work on Debian and Linux Mint (I've tested this) that use GNOME, but binaries that use the GNOME libraries will not run on Linux distro's that uses XFCE, MATE, OpenBox, LXDE, Cinnamon, Budgie, KDE Plasma, and other GUI libraries. Yes, you can install GNOME on Arch Linux, but why? Only thing I can think of is if you need that compatibility would you do this.

Even if you are running Ubuntu 20.04, your binary may not work on Ubuntu 21.04. I say may not, because 20.04 uses X11, where 21.04 and newer will use Wayland. X11 and Wayland are what is called "display servers," and they also have different libraries that may be pulled into your binary at creation time. I believe Arch Linux has already moved to Wayland, where Ubuntu will do so officially next year with it's 22.04 LTS release, coming sometime in April.

This may be too technical for some, to simplified for others, but I hope this helps in some greater detail on why in Linux binaries may or may not run on different distro's.



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Offline SMcNeill

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Re: Which Linux distribution to run QB64?
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2021, 08:20:50 pm »
And that, by Jeorge, is why I stick to Windows!  😁
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