Author Topic: The end of Visual Basic  (Read 8120 times)

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FellippeHeitor

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The end of Visual Basic
« on: March 13, 2020, 02:26:03 am »
"Microsoft said this week that it will support Visual Basic on .NET 5.0 but will no longer add new features or evolve the language."

https://www.thurrott.com/dev/232268/microsoft-plots-the-end-of-visual-basic

Offline Qwerkey

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Re: The end of Visual Basic
« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2020, 05:15:55 am »
A ghastly programming system.  Good riddance!

FellippeHeitor

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Re: The end of Visual Basic
« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2020, 08:07:46 am »
I haven't used directly in a while but can't say it doesn't have a place in my heart. InForm has its roots deep in the time VB was my language of choice.

Offline TerryRitchie

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Re: The end of Visual Basic
« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2020, 11:41:19 am »
Good riddance .NET

I liked Visual Basic (even VBDOS) up to version 6. .NET in my opinion ruined it.
In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion.

Offline bplus

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Re: The end of Visual Basic
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2020, 01:23:55 pm »
Good riddance .NET

I liked Visual Basic (even VBDOS) up to version 6. .NET in my opinion ruined it.

+1 yep!

Offline CBTJD

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Re: The end of Visual Basic
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2020, 06:44:52 pm »
Good riddance .NET
I liked Visual Basic (even VBDOS) up to version 6. .NET in my opinion ruined it.
Hello everyone!

Long time listener, first time caller. I thought I'd dive in on this subject for my first post.

I totally agree regarding VB .NET. It's a horrible platform and I welcome its demise. Calling it "Basic" was a criminal offense when it excreted onto the market in 2002. It might have smelled a little like BASIC, but only because it humped Visual Basic 6's leg. VB .NET is NOT and NEVER WAS BASIC.But this news comes as no surprise to me. Microsoft has had a love-hate relationship with BASIC from the beginning. They started out with Altair BASIC, then BASIC-80, BASIC-86, GW-BASIC, QuickBASIC, QBasic, Visual Basic, Visual Basic .NET, and now Small Basic. Those are just the DOS/Windows versions. And it wasn't a natural progression of features from one version to the next either. QBasic was a step back - we lost the compiler. Then Visual Basic came around and it didn't have a compiler until version 5, five years later! Then they stopped development at version 6 and gave us dot CRAP. And now they're killing IT off.

I'm a retired technical writer, mostly for government and military contracts, and an avid computer historian. I've consulted on several computer museum and historical renovation projects over the past couple of decades, and I regularly volunteer my time doing consulting for educational projects.
I happened upon QB64 after doing some research for a maker space project in Arizona. I was asked to research the current market and recommend a programming language for 8 to 16 year olds. The obvious answer from most would be Python, but I've never liked the language myself. My client asked for a weighted ranking comparison chart of the top language recommendations and gave me a list of 26 aspects ranked in order of importance - everything from cross-platform compatibility, editor and compiler options, documentation, level of community support, cost, you name it. Much to my surprise, QB64 beat them all, and not just a little.

Before I got started on my research, I was fairly convinced my recommendation would be either Free BASIC, Pure BASIC, or Just BASIC. Why BASIC instead of something more "mainstream" like Java or C/C++/C#? Simple - kids don't have the patience to learn that kind of heavy OOP garbage. Besides, Java sucks! BASIC is unfairly maligned anyway. For all kinds of reasons I won't get into (mostly ill-informed, or just plain stupid), people dismiss BASIC.
But consider this: There are over 50 different versions of BASIC available right now. Some are regularly maintained and updated commercial products while others have seen some neglect, and then there's everything in between. And while some versions maintain a commitment to the original intent of the BASIC language, others have lost their way. Case in point, .NET. Also, Gambas, Xojo, and...well...Pure BASIC. They've all added ridiculous amounts of worthless bells and whistles to the point where the BASIC language itself has been lost altogether. But how many other computer languages do you know of that have that many contenders? If BASIC is so bad, why is there so much of it?
BASIC is like the hamburger of the programming world. At its simplest form, it's nothing but a sandwich, but there are countless vendors selling them in all types, sizes and flavors. Yeah, they're simple, but when you're hungry and need a quick, easy, and comforting solution...

I've been a huge supporter of Liberty BASIC (the paid version of Just BASIC) since it came out in 1992. It has been a solid tool in my toolbox for years. And the next expected upgrade to version 5 should see greater cross-platform compatibility, which admittedly has been lacking. So I was surprised to see this QB64 come out of nowhere and just dominate the chart. How did I miss this little jewel?

I would like to see more official support for Raspberry Pi and heavier activity on Rosetta Code, but you folks should know that where QB64 dominated the chart was cross-platform compatibility, extensive documentation, an active support community, a regular update schedule, YouTube representation, available published books, and affordability - just to name the top handful. As for Rosetta Code, I've been contributing code solutions to some of the simpler tasks for QB64 for the past couple of days as I pick up the syntax. I invite you all to drop by and see what tasks spark your imagination. There are plenty of tasks that haven't even been attempted yet for QB64.

Sorry for the long message. Occupational hazard.

- CBTJD :@)

P.S.: if you need help editing the Rosetta Code site, please don't hesitate to contact me. It is a little unusual. Also, I'm not in any way associated with the site, I just really like the concept.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2020, 07:07:20 pm by CBTJD »
CBTJD: Coding BASIC Takes Judicious Dedication

Offline bplus

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Re: The end of Visual Basic
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2020, 09:31:03 pm »
Welcome CBTJD,

Here is a Rosetta Code Challenge I did awhile back.
https://www.qb64.org/forum/index.php?topic=2334.msg115599#msg115599

FellippeHeitor

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Re: The end of Visual Basic
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2020, 09:52:46 pm »
@CBTJD It's been a delight to read your report and to learn what you bring to the table regarding our presence in places we wouldn't even have imagined.

Re: Rosetta Code
Very good idea to spread our presence there too. We've had bplus's attempts in the past and it'll be awesome to increase the participation.

Fellippe.

Offline CBTJD

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Re: The end of Visual Basic
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2020, 10:22:10 pm »
@CBTJD It's been a delight to read your report and to learn what you bring to the table regarding our presence in places we wouldn't even have imagined.
Thank you very much for such a warm and friendly welcome!
I ran bplus' code for the Word Search Challenge. It looks solid to me. I notice it hasn't been posted to Rosetta? If I can be of help with that, I would be happy to.
:@)
CBTJD: Coding BASIC Takes Judicious Dedication

Offline bplus

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Re: The end of Visual Basic
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2020, 10:33:26 pm »
Thank you very much for such a warm and friendly welcome!
I ran bplus' code for the Word Search Challenge. It looks solid to me. I notice it hasn't been posted to Rosetta? If I can be of help with that, I would be happy to.
:@)


I'd be pleased and honored, thanks.

So that's that what those initials are :-))  Here I thought coding Basic just took Love of Fun (and Frustration) :-))

Offline TerryRitchie

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Re: The end of Visual Basic
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2020, 12:28:42 am »
Welcome to the forum CBTJD!

I read your entire post and your thoughts mirror mine exactly. I was a high school CS teacher for 18 years and used QB64 as an intro to programming for 15 to 17 year olds and it worked very well. Of course, when the school hired a new IT administrator the first thing he did was get the ear of the superintendent and tell him what a "disservice" I was doing to those kids for not using a more "mainstream" language like Python or Java. This ultimately forced QB64 out of my classroom and introduced Python (the lesser of the two evils) which made a very noticeable decline in student participation in programming. OOP stinks for teaching those that have never seen code before. Many got so frustrated they decided coding wasn't for them, even though I knew they had the mindset for it.

Over the years I have tried most of the other dialects of BASIC you mentioned and found the same thing ... no documentation, waning support, and/or too many "fancy" additives that took the BASIC flavor away. I love how you can grab GWBASIC or QuickBasic source code from the 80's and 90's, plug into into QB64 and it just works. 99% of the new commands enhance the original tool set without adding that overdone "fancy" feeling as well.

Fellippe has done an awesome job of keeping the language alive and moving it forward. There are others besides Fellippe behind the scenes contributing greatly as well (thanks guys/gals!).

Again, welcome and I look forward to your input on the board.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 12:32:56 am by TerryRitchie »
In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion.

Offline CBTJD

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Re: The end of Visual Basic
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2020, 12:47:40 am »
Okay, all set.
http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Word_search#QB64
:@)
CBTJD:
C-1 = B, B-1 = A, T-1 = S, J-1 = I, D-1 = C
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 12:49:52 am by CBTJD »
CBTJD: Coding BASIC Takes Judicious Dedication

Offline CBTJD

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Re: The end of Visual Basic
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2020, 12:54:48 am »
Welcome to the forum CBTJD!
I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Love the signature!
Thanks for the warm welcome. It looks like I'll be among friends here.
:@)
CBTJD: Coding BASIC Takes Judicious Dedication

Offline SMcNeill

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Re: The end of Visual Basic
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2020, 01:04:33 am »
Love the signature!
Thanks for the warm welcome. It looks like I'll be among friends here.
:@)

I think it's wrong though.  Isn't it really, "Coding Basic Takes Jack Daniels."  Usually lots of Jack Daniel's.....

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/Jack_Daniel%27s_Old_No._7_1%2C14l.jpg/1200px-Jack_Daniel%27s_Old_No._7_1%2C14l.jpg
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 01:05:40 am by SMcNeill »
https://github.com/SteveMcNeill/Steve64 — A github collection of all things Steve!

Offline TerryRitchie

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Re: The end of Visual Basic
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2020, 01:05:59 am »
I can honestly say there isn't anyone on this board that isn't friendly and helpful, something pretty rare on the Internet today. I've been with QB64 since 2010 and have always felt welcome.

Yeah, I have no idea where I picked up that little saying (not original to me), but it always stuck with me. :-)
« Last Edit: March 14, 2020, 01:07:11 am by TerryRitchie »
In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion.