QB64.org Forum
Active Forums => QB64 Discussion => Topic started by: odin on January 13, 2022, 01:10:07 pm
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As many of the community know, this project has had a few stumbling blocks and hardships. Starting with the move from Galleon Dragon to Fellippe Heitor, running the project, the limited funding, and technical difficulties, it has been a stressful few years. With the future in mind, we have decided to enlist the help of a business professional to help run the business side of QB64.
I want to be very clear; there are no current nor future plans to make QB64 a commercial or paid product. It will stay open source and free. Robert Carter of Carter Enterprises has come in as CEO of the project. You may also know Robert from the forum and Patreon as RCcola1987.
This move will provide better funding, support, and growth opportunities.
We got the QB64 project registered as a USA company and now have much greater protection from bad actors by bringing in Robert.
Fellippe will stay on as a volunteer community manager and front-end developer. Most interactions in the community will still be with the people you have already dealt with, and no member of the team is leaving.
By the time the community sees this, we will have already started the move of the website, forum, wiki, and inform sites to a new platform and have begun to make enhancements to the home page. This will resolve a few long-standing issues with our current host and future plans.
We have also added additional security to the project by making sure no one person can take down or block access to the project. In addition, there is now a plan to deal with the loss of a core team member.
Finally, we are adding a news section to the homepage (https://qb64.org/index.php/news/). This will allow the QB64 Team to keep the members of the QB64 community up to date on what we are doing.
We have big plans for the future and need the communities’ help to make it happen. We all want to personally thank the QB64 community and the greater QuickBasic community for their support throughout the years.
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As a founding member of qb64.org and team member and librarian yada yada, I had zero idea this was coming. Shadow government confirmed.
Jokes aside, what's this mean from a "business" point of view? A QB64 mug in every cupboard?
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Anything that will promote QB64 is a great idea... Very exciting... Mug? What mug?
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We have big plans for the future and need the communities’ help to make it happen.
Looking forward to hearing what those plans are.
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We wish the new team the same degree of amazing success as has happened under Fellippe and beforehand under Galleon.
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The fact that QB64 exists and runs so well is a major accomplishment. Thanks to everyone involved. The community is amazing and has been very helpful to me. Steve McNeil provided me with some code to address issues which has been a real life saver. I would love to see QB64 produce smaller code and for QB64 to run on an M1 processor. QB64 currently produces C code, but it would be a great teaching too if the C code it produced look more like this example:
#include <stdio.h>
int main() {
// printf() displays the string inside quotation
printf("Hello, World!");
return 0;
}
I am not clear what a "CEO" will bring to this project, but I look forward to seeing what direction you go. Hopefully, this is not the beginning of the end.
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- Round 1 -- early development by Galleon
- I found and use it since v0.922 in 2010, when I need to run my QBasic stuff on Windows 7
- unbelievable it's 12 years already, it was before DECLARE LIBRARY, _OFFSET and _MEM, things we use today as they've ever been there
- Round 2 -- transition from SDL to OpenGL
- a long and rocky way to get all (most) of the caused regressions sorted out, some still remain
- a couple of my own bugfixes and enhancements got implemented into the language
- we also got a new web page and forum and thanks to social media and YouTube a broader visibility in the public -- Thanks Fellippe for all the cool video tutorials and podcasts
- Round 3 -- Going further into eternity...
- we get more professional at the administrative organization of the QB64 Project
- we surely will further enhance it and kill bugs
- I'm proud to be part of it...
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This whole thing stinks like shit unless someone opens a window. I speak not just for myself, but for whomever hit me up privately to "please say something". (You know who you are, and there's more than one.) Just some random points, these aren't all of them nor are they in any kind of order:
1) Why doesn't the CEO make himself an account and chat with us? Forums or Discord. Can I look up his ongoing interest in QB64?
2) Has anyone besides Fellippe ever met this guy? Were there competitors? What was the process that led up to this transition?
3) What is this guy the CEO *of* exactly? The website? The compiler? Anything that says QB64 on it? His own C:\ drive only?
4) Does anyone remember when Walter tried this same thing and then all we did was laugh? Does anyone who remembers that moment enjoy the taste of their own shoe right now?
5) If I go and buy q b 6 4 . n e t , or qb64.com, and then fork the repo and call it my own, can I be a CEO too?
Some people close to Fellippe - and I don't mean just me - want more of an explanation for this.
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What say @FellippeHeitor and @luke of this?
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As long as someone is paying the hosting bill each month I'm not particularly fussed who it is. This is exactly the kind of thing I don't want to care about in a project that's supposed to be for fun.
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As long as someone is paying the hosting bill each month I'm not particularly fussed who it is. This is exactly the kind of thing I don't want to care about in a project that's supposed to be for fun.
Understandable, but there is some fear of power those persons may naturally feel entitled (CEO) to impose, that wonderful fun could be lost, even for the entitled.
Last I heard from @FellippeHeitor, funding was fine (I have offered to help if he got stuck), so we would not have to depend solely on someone,
Of course money is not only issue, seems to me there is increased concern about security of forum and QB64 entity. And of course for security reasons hard to discuss openly.
Also not fun, calling in professionals and bringing in the out of control changes and costs that usually come with them.
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We're happy, the changes are positive. I posted the original message above as odin. Let's keep having fun.
Ryan is both here in the forum and on Discord (I linked his profile when the announcement was posted there). Again, welcome, Ryan.
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Hi @FellippeHeitor how do we know RC here at forum, by what @ name?
BTW I use to work for RC Cola when they bought up Arby's to have some liquid assets, they later liquidated the company stores but I was long gone before that. Fun loosely based facts :)
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@FellippeHeitor ( @odin )'s initial post here gives Robert's forum ID as @RCcola1987 but, as @bplus says, this ID does not exist at the forum (this is Robert's ID on Discord). So, we'll need to have Robert's forum ID for contact here as well. (odin: you gods really ought to be infallible).
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@Qwerkey
I did notice in "a new section to the homepage" we can post messages. But it looks like a special log-in for that, as it asks me to log-in when I already am here at forum.
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I'm not really aware of the business side of QB64 or the decision making process for which features are added / prioritized. It's not an open source product developed by volunteers?
As long as QB64 stays free, keeps working reliably, continues to work with current & legacy Windows, Linux and Mac, and remains backwards compatible with older programs, and the community continues in the same spirit, I think I'll be happy. It would be nice to know someone is listening to our feature requests, and have some visibility into the planning & prioritization of development. As long as QB64 sticks around and keeps working!
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Channeling my Super Saiyan Karen energy:
QB64 Team, I want to speak with your manager.
Can we at least get a link to this guy's website? There are several "CEOs" with his name when I do a search.
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we have decided to enlist the help of a business professional to help run the business side of QB64.
Are you able to explain what the business side of QB64 is?
The list in the "odin" message appears to be just Administrative items associated with the ongoing fun of running a website but this feels like a major fundamental change. CEO ... business professional ... might we see revenue generating ads on the site? ... might the "business" be obligate to be registered with a gov't agency (aka Facebook troubles). Hope I haven't let my imagination (Dim as it is) go down a dark road here.
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@Qwerkey
I did notice in "a new section to the homepage" we can post messages. But it looks like a special log-in for that, as it asks me to log-in when I already am here at forum.
@bplus I expect that Fellippe is still setting things up at the Homepage. Probably they don't want immediate Logins and replies: Robert and Fellippe would doubtless feel embarrassed by the approbation and flattery which Bill would want to heap upon them.
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I have no head for business or understand all of its workings. I can however use Google and searched for the "Purpose of a CEO". This is what I got: "The CEO is the head of the executive team and manages the day to day operations of the organisation, its people and resources. The CEO implements the strategy approved by the board and ensures that the organisation's structure and processes meet the strategic and cultural needs of the organisation."
Businesses require CEO's, CFO's etc... Are we becoming a business? Yes or no? I will be quite blunt. I did not retire from one business to join another. I hope that I am wrong and the introduction of a CEO to 'manage' QB64 is all that will be needed to continue the Status Quo.
At my age, I am quickly running out of 'fun' things to do and the time to do them... From my experience, businesses are all about revenue and keeping share holders happy... Some have been fun... Most are not.
If I stay here, will I be having fun? My next decision will be based on QB64's honesty...
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Reinforcing the idea of the original message, nothing's supposed to change for the community. It just felt better to let you know what's going on.
We could have gone on without you knowing of the change (which hasn't happened just now, btw).
Other than that, again, nothing changes.
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CEO function:
- Ensure that the organization has mission objectives that are completely unrealistic and/or evil.
- Represent the organization by having logo tattooed on forehead.
- Constantly task staff with creating or watching slideshows.
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Reinforcing the idea of the original message, nothing's supposed to change for the community.
Well thanks for the update.
I think the main concerns people have around _any_ free product is when the word "business" appears, they wonder if it's going to still be free, or in the very least, they wonder if the product itself will change, and if so how? The word "business" means money, and we wonder, where is the money going to come from to pay this company, and how is QB64 going to change to bring in more money or fulfill this new partner's plans? We all like QB64 because it works, has remained free, hasn't changed too radically - there are new features but the language itself is mostly backwards compatible, it's cross platform, we are part of a community, and there is a lot of trust that it'll keep going.
I think just the word "business" is a loaded word, especially in tech where platforms and languages turn on a dime, change radically, and often disappear. And I think it worries people who are interested in a stable dependable platform which they can invest their time & work in and know that their code will still work and the language will not evolve into something unrecognizable in 5, 10 or more years, when there is the suggestion that the platform is moving in a "business" direction.
Not to overreact, I believe you when you say QB64 isn't going away, I'm just voicing some of the feelings, concerns, & questions around hearing news of a "change in management" for a tech platform...
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My only real concern is what, if any, changes are there going to be to the repo at Github? Will it be moving or migrating somewhere else? Is everyone going to keep access that has it? Is there going to be some sort of "official development plan" in the works now? Is anything going to change on that end of things, or is this basically just one wealthy guy taking over paying the existing bills so he can have an excuse to add his name to the project, or use it as a tax write off? (Which I don't mind one bit, honestly. Someone has to pay to keep the lightbulbs burning and the hamsters turning in their wheel!)
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Ain't no wealthy guy. We're still relying on donations through Patreon.
No changes elsewhere.
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Interesting. Two direct questions. No direct answers.
The overall gist is "Status Quo".
Let's try for a third... But why the change in management?
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Not to mess with my personal finances anymore.
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You guys need to stop accepting answers from Fellippe and start demanding this new guy show up and say something.
EDIT: Oops, hit Post instead of Preview.
I was about to say that the financial aspect of running qb64.org is not that big of a burden. I would know because I originally bought the place. It doesn't take a CEO to run qb64.org. All it takes is a drain cleaner going through a divorce with some spare time.
Okay, so next we receive this New Beginning announcement, written by - whoever it was - probably RC himself? With some help from Fellippe? Anyway, we receive that, and literally everyone has some kind of question or concern. Finally, a few responses down, Fellippe strolls in to announce "We're happy"... Like a highly medicated, fully-lobotomized patient. "No, we are quite happy." As your friend, this shit scares me. Not about QB64, but about you. Are you ok Fellippe?
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Not ok. You guys are totally freaking me out with the paranoia.
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Paranoia? Maybe. It's like we are all passengers on an airline being told mid flight that the flightcrew is being replaced...
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Alright.
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Paranoia? Maybe. It's like we are all passengers on an airline being told mid flight that the flightcrew is being replaced...
Honestly guys, it's not a big deal. It's just business as usual for the current project. One day we have an off-topic, community forum. The next we don't. One day we can edit posts. The next we can't. And then we can again...
The site, in general, has been filled with repeated sudden and undiscussed changes over the last few years. This is just another instance of the same ole, same ole. People will be upset for a couple days, wondering why nothing was mentioned or discussed in what's supposed to be an open source project, but then when things settle after a bit, life will go on as always.
Apparently:
The forums aren't changing.
The repo isn't changing.
The rules and basic lack of planning for development and future additions/enhancements aren't changing.
Basically, it just sounds like some guy has decided to take over the patreon funding, and now he's called "CEO" instead of Fellippe. Felippe won't be using his personal finances to bankroll the costs of hosting; this other guy will -- and that seems like it's all that's going to change.
(For now, until the next sudden announcement... )
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Alright lepers, STxAxTIC out.
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Understood. Looking forward to a severe bout of normalcy...
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Aha. Thanks for the information. I'd rather (based on the experience at [abandoned, outdated and now likely malicious qb64 dot net website - don’t go there]) start downloading all the source codes to my home. I don't want to lose many goodies here on the forum. Just for sure. I've never heard of that guy in my life.
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Hey all,
This is Robert Carter AKA RCcola1987. I am hear to answer any questions and clear the air.
First off the title of CEO was not my choice but is required when a business is registered. This is required so that Fellippe is no longer personally handling money and day to day business affairs. Now that that is out of the way I would like to directly address some of the posts on this thread.
@STxAxTIC You mentioned many different things and I will address as many as I can. The one that stood out the most to me is your comment stating that
"I was about to say that the financial aspect of running qb64.org is not that big of a burden. I would know because I originally bought the place. It doesn't take a CEO to run qb64.org. All it takes is a drain cleaner going through a divorce with some spare time."
That statement is simply not true. The project rides a razors edge of limited funding and increasing costs. I have personally contributed $100's to the project over the years and now my company has also contributed $100's. We are also dedicating a large amount of our time to help bring the project to new "Markets". Like getting it on the Raspberry PI.
Another of your questions was why I didn't announce my self on Discord or the Forum. For the Forum it was a matter of waiting until this post was put up and reopening my Forum account. My old one for years ago had gotten removed. Also on Discord we hadn't planned on announcing anything there and I am online all day almost every day there.
The last question I'm going to answer here from @STxAxTIC is what am I CEO of? To put it bluntly I am managing the day to day business operations, money, growth and direction of the project. For example when it comes to direction of the project I am looking into some of the issues with QB64 base code and figuring out what funding and people we need to help clean it up. both @luke and @FellippeHeitor can speak to how much a mess the source code is and how hard it is to maintain let alone add features. Since everyone involved with the project is a volunteer we need to help make their job easier and less stressful. These changes in no way will break any functionality in QB64 and will not have an effect on your use of the project.
@bplus I see and understand your concern about power and the typical situation of CEO's in companies. Let me be abundantly clear I have zero interest, want, or motivation to change the project into a pay for product nor make major structural changes to the project or its staff. My primary goals are as follows: Expand the reach of QB64 (get more people using it), Increase reliability of the IDE and complied code, Increase features of the IDE inline with the community and the vision of QB64.
On security one of the first changes I made was to the overall structure of how things are hosted and secured. Coming from a background of Technology it is my top concern and we take security of ALL of QB64's assets very seriously. This includes the security of your personal data as well.
Finally on your third item Quote "Also not fun, calling in professionals and bringing in the out of control changes and costs that usually come with them." We have systematically lowered costs. We did this NOT by cutting corners but by using better providers and streamlining services. This is still happening and we are working to make things even better.
@bplus and @Qwerkey The main website at www.qg64.org will not be the place for discussion that will remain on the forums and discord. Also most of the website work is being completed by myself and @luke. This is still in process and has already taken may weeks to do.
@SMcNeill Your concern was that the repo would be changing. We have ZERO plans to change the repo now or in the future. Also The project will still need donations to survive. I am not a bank but will help with things I can.
Also I want to point out that I have been pushing from more community input into decisions. We just aren't there yet.
For all that were asking for my information here it is.
website www.cbcwd.com
Discord RCcola1987
Forum RCcola1987
I am much more active on Discord.
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Happy New Year to all. To all the survivors, one might say.
The concern is legitimate.
QB64 we all feel a bit "ours". Obviously this is not the case! And the credit for its development goes entirely to those who thought of it and carried it forward.
But there remains the fear that it will become another commercial project like many others, without "soul", without pathos, without "heart"... and then for a fee...
We hope well.
Thanks anyway to all those who have allowed this dream.
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@krovit I understand and agree that is a common thing to happen but I can attest that it will not happen under my watch.
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@krovit I understand and agree that is a common thing to happen but I can attest that it will not happen under my watch.
:)
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@krovit I understand and agree that is a common thing to happen but I can attest that it will not happen under my watch.
Thank you for your replies. I think the concern you are seeing just shows how passionately the users love QB64 and the community around it. We all just want it to see it continue.
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@RCcola1987 - thank you for replying and trying to allay some fears.
I suspect that most folks are going to take a “wait and see” position as things go forward, and you have certainly gotten a sense of how people like sudden change being dropped on them.
As I mentioned, I am looking forward to seeing what new ideas and such you bring forth. I do not profess to be one of the founding members or even the most passionate QB64 enthusiast, but I enjoy being part of this group, and QB64 has allowed me to rekindle a love for coding I forgot I had.
Ideally, the transition is seamless, invisible, and for 99% of the population, the new world looks exactly like the old world.
Welcome aboard, Chief!
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@RCcola1987
Another Thankyou for your reply and responding to our concerns, obviously we care very much about QB64.
Thank you for outlining how you see your contribution, what you are doing and aiming for, sounds great!
Thank you for helping make the Team's job a little easier.
You are now way more than just a shadowy name :)
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@RCcola1987 - So Mr. CEO :) - this is such an interesting change :
First off the title of CEO was not my choice but is required when a business is registered.
Can you disclose what State or Country our new business is registered in? And what kind of entity our new business is?
From reading your website and the outline you have provided here, you are definitely the man with the tools and experience to achieve the goals of expansion and wider adoption of QB64. I can very much appreciate there will be costs to maintain a business registration not to mention the hidden costs to expand QB64. I do plan on sending $$ when I can as I owe so much to the various members who have helped me with my coding and debated my weird ideas (by the way Pandemics are another reason for a Universal Income plan).
While I would love everything to stay as it was, I do agree change is an inevitability in this life and so the Carter era begins. As Statsman1 say, Welcome Aboard
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@Dimster Some things I can some I can't. What I can tell you is it is a US based entity in Florida.
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hello RCcola1987
I congratulate you in the professional manner of responding to the inquires, today's generation can's make a post without making a dozen quotes
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This is cool, I'll gladly buy a premium QB64 that comes with licensing and a year of consulting for my professional use. All the rest of you can piddle about in the programs section.
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_vince... but so, you provoke! :)
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Watching this with interest. As always I'll be following the "prime directive" of non-interference.
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@Galleon .... "with interest" a very interesting choice of business lexicon.
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If memory serves correctly, Piccard, disregarded the Prime Directive on at least 9 separate occasions... lol
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Honestly guys, it's not a big deal. It's just business as usual for the current project. One day we have an off-topic, community forum. The next we don't. One day we can edit posts. The next we can't. And then we can again...
The site, in general, has been filled with repeated sudden and undiscussed changes over the last few years. This is just another instance of the same ole, same ole. People will be upset for a couple days, wondering why nothing was mentioned or discussed in what's supposed to be an open source project, but then when things settle after a bit, life will go on as always.
Apparently:
The forums aren't changing.
The repo isn't changing.
The rules and basic lack of planning for development and future additions/enhancements aren't changing.
Basically, it just sounds like some guy has decided to take over the patreon funding, and now he's called "CEO" instead of Fellippe. Felippe won't be using his personal finances to bankroll the costs of hosting; this other guy will -- and that seems like it's all that's going to change.
(For now, until the next sudden announcement... )
Steve -- you are spot on as always....you speak the truth and make me laugh at the same time. Thank you brother...