QB64.org Forum
Active Forums => QB64 Discussion => Topic started by: FellippeHeitor on March 13, 2020, 02:26:03 am
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"Microsoft said this week that it will support Visual Basic on .NET 5.0 but will no longer add new features or evolve the language."
https://www.thurrott.com/dev/232268/microsoft-plots-the-end-of-visual-basic (https://www.thurrott.com/dev/232268/microsoft-plots-the-end-of-visual-basic)
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A ghastly programming system. Good riddance!
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I haven't used directly in a while but can't say it doesn't have a place in my heart. InForm has its roots deep in the time VB was my language of choice.
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Good riddance .NET
I liked Visual Basic (even VBDOS) up to version 6. .NET in my opinion ruined it.
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Good riddance .NET
I liked Visual Basic (even VBDOS) up to version 6. .NET in my opinion ruined it.
+1 yep!
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Good riddance .NET
I liked Visual Basic (even VBDOS) up to version 6. .NET in my opinion ruined it.
Hello everyone!
Long time listener, first time caller. I thought I'd dive in on this subject for my first post.
I totally agree regarding VB .NET. It's a horrible platform and I welcome its demise. Calling it "Basic" was a criminal offense when it excreted onto the market in 2002. It might have smelled a little like BASIC, but only because it humped Visual Basic 6's leg. VB .NET is NOT and NEVER WAS BASIC.But this news comes as no surprise to me. Microsoft has had a love-hate relationship with BASIC from the beginning. They started out with Altair BASIC, then BASIC-80, BASIC-86, GW-BASIC, QuickBASIC, QBasic, Visual Basic, Visual Basic .NET, and now Small Basic. Those are just the DOS/Windows versions. And it wasn't a natural progression of features from one version to the next either. QBasic was a step back - we lost the compiler. Then Visual Basic came around and it didn't have a compiler until version 5, five years later! Then they stopped development at version 6 and gave us dot CRAP. And now they're killing IT off.
I'm a retired technical writer, mostly for government and military contracts, and an avid computer historian. I've consulted on several computer museum and historical renovation projects over the past couple of decades, and I regularly volunteer my time doing consulting for educational projects.
I happened upon QB64 after doing some research for a maker space project in Arizona. I was asked to research the current market and recommend a programming language for 8 to 16 year olds. The obvious answer from most would be Python, but I've never liked the language myself. My client asked for a weighted ranking comparison chart of the top language recommendations and gave me a list of 26 aspects ranked in order of importance - everything from cross-platform compatibility, editor and compiler options, documentation, level of community support, cost, you name it. Much to my surprise, QB64 beat them all, and not just a little.
Before I got started on my research, I was fairly convinced my recommendation would be either Free BASIC, Pure BASIC, or Just BASIC. Why BASIC instead of something more "mainstream" like Java or C/C++/C#? Simple - kids don't have the patience to learn that kind of heavy OOP garbage. Besides, Java sucks! BASIC is unfairly maligned anyway. For all kinds of reasons I won't get into (mostly ill-informed, or just plain stupid), people dismiss BASIC.
But consider this: There are over 50 different versions of BASIC available right now. Some are regularly maintained and updated commercial products while others have seen some neglect, and then there's everything in between. And while some versions maintain a commitment to the original intent of the BASIC language, others have lost their way. Case in point, .NET. Also, Gambas, Xojo, and...well...Pure BASIC. They've all added ridiculous amounts of worthless bells and whistles to the point where the BASIC language itself has been lost altogether. But how many other computer languages do you know of that have that many contenders? If BASIC is so bad, why is there so much of it?
BASIC is like the hamburger of the programming world. At its simplest form, it's nothing but a sandwich, but there are countless vendors selling them in all types, sizes and flavors. Yeah, they're simple, but when you're hungry and need a quick, easy, and comforting solution...
I've been a huge supporter of Liberty BASIC (the paid version of Just BASIC) since it came out in 1992. It has been a solid tool in my toolbox for years. And the next expected upgrade to version 5 should see greater cross-platform compatibility, which admittedly has been lacking. So I was surprised to see this QB64 come out of nowhere and just dominate the chart. How did I miss this little jewel?
I would like to see more official support for Raspberry Pi and heavier activity on Rosetta Code (http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Category:QB64), but you folks should know that where QB64 dominated the chart was cross-platform compatibility, extensive documentation, an active support community, a regular update schedule, YouTube representation, available published books, and affordability - just to name the top handful. As for Rosetta Code, I've been contributing code solutions to some of the simpler tasks for QB64 for the past couple of days as I pick up the syntax. I invite you all to drop by and see what tasks spark your imagination. There are plenty of tasks that haven't even been attempted yet for QB64.
Sorry for the long message. Occupational hazard.
- CBTJD :@)
P.S.: if you need help editing the Rosetta Code site, please don't hesitate to contact me. It is a little unusual. Also, I'm not in any way associated with the site, I just really like the concept.
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Welcome CBTJD,
Here is a Rosetta Code Challenge I did awhile back.
https://www.qb64.org/forum/index.php?topic=2334.msg115599#msg115599
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@CBTJD It's been a delight to read your report and to learn what you bring to the table regarding our presence in places we wouldn't even have imagined.
Re: Rosetta Code
Very good idea to spread our presence there too. We've had bplus's attempts in the past and it'll be awesome to increase the participation.
Fellippe.
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@CBTJD It's been a delight to read your report and to learn what you bring to the table regarding our presence in places we wouldn't even have imagined.
Thank you very much for such a warm and friendly welcome!
I ran bplus' code for the Word Search Challenge. It looks solid to me. I notice it hasn't been posted to Rosetta? If I can be of help with that, I would be happy to.
:@)
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Thank you very much for such a warm and friendly welcome!
I ran bplus' code for the Word Search Challenge. It looks solid to me. I notice it hasn't been posted to Rosetta? If I can be of help with that, I would be happy to.
:@)
I'd be pleased and honored, thanks.
So that's that what those initials are :-)) Here I thought coding Basic just took Love of Fun (and Frustration) :-))
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Welcome to the forum CBTJD!
I read your entire post and your thoughts mirror mine exactly. I was a high school CS teacher for 18 years and used QB64 as an intro to programming for 15 to 17 year olds and it worked very well. Of course, when the school hired a new IT administrator the first thing he did was get the ear of the superintendent and tell him what a "disservice" I was doing to those kids for not using a more "mainstream" language like Python or Java. This ultimately forced QB64 out of my classroom and introduced Python (the lesser of the two evils) which made a very noticeable decline in student participation in programming. OOP stinks for teaching those that have never seen code before. Many got so frustrated they decided coding wasn't for them, even though I knew they had the mindset for it.
Over the years I have tried most of the other dialects of BASIC you mentioned and found the same thing ... no documentation, waning support, and/or too many "fancy" additives that took the BASIC flavor away. I love how you can grab GWBASIC or QuickBasic source code from the 80's and 90's, plug into into QB64 and it just works. 99% of the new commands enhance the original tool set without adding that overdone "fancy" feeling as well.
Fellippe has done an awesome job of keeping the language alive and moving it forward. There are others besides Fellippe behind the scenes contributing greatly as well (thanks guys/gals!).
Again, welcome and I look forward to your input on the board.
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Okay, all set.
http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Word_search#QB64 (http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Word_search#QB64)
:@)
CBTJD:
C-1 = B, B-1 = A, T-1 = S, J-1 = I, D-1 = C
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Welcome to the forum CBTJD!
I would rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.
Love the signature!
Thanks for the warm welcome. It looks like I'll be among friends here.
:@)
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Love the signature!
Thanks for the warm welcome. It looks like I'll be among friends here.
:@)
I think it's wrong though. Isn't it really, "Coding Basic Takes Jack Daniels." Usually lots of Jack Daniel's.....
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/Jack_Daniel%27s_Old_No._7_1%2C14l.jpg/1200px-Jack_Daniel%27s_Old_No._7_1%2C14l.jpg
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I can honestly say there isn't anyone on this board that isn't friendly and helpful, something pretty rare on the Internet today. I've been with QB64 since 2010 and have always felt welcome.
Yeah, I have no idea where I picked up that little saying (not original to me), but it always stuck with me. :-)
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I suppose you can't teach an old moses new tricks, but I don't think I ever seriously considered trying to use Visual Basic, or any other language for that matter (save an abortive flirtation with Assembly). So I have no real idea how it was. When I get comfortable with a tool, it's the one I stick with. QB64 is that comfortable tool with a nice assortment of attachments.
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I suppose you can't teach an old moses new tricks, but I don't think I ever seriously considered trying to use Visual Basic, or any other language for that matter (save an abortive flirtation with Assembly). So I have no real idea how it was. When I get comfortable with a tool, it's the one I stick with. QB64 is that comfortable tool with a nice assortment of attachments.
If you use InForm you'll get an idea of what VisualBasic was like: Create a form (screen) then drop controls (buttons, slider bars, drop down lists, etc..) onto the form and then attach snippets of code to each control. The controls in effect become event driven subroutines, just like InForm sets up for you.
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I have to say when .net came out , I tried converting vb5 programs . The amount of code incompatibilities were huge ( not to mention the huge amount of data / programs / overhead/ slow performance / crap that came with .net framework) so I decided to stick with Vb5. I prefer Vb5 to vb6 because of the bookmark functionality within the IDE. I am so glad I never bothered with VB.net. I still use Vb5 on Windows10 (64bit) and I am using QB64 for about 20 or so programs that I need to run under 64bit and had never needed to move to Vb5. QB64 is a great tool, only found a couple of incompatibilities so far LPRINT (which is known) and EOF function . I won’t miss Vb5.net but for all those that made the transition to .net it just another kick in the proverbial bollocks from Microsoft .
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"Coding Basic Takes Jack Daniels." Usually lots of Jack Daniel's.....
Ah, nice. Very true!
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I welcome you too CBTJD, who I am one of the little ones, in here... nothing important.
But I was struck to find that we have the same ideas about the evolution of programming languages which, in my opinion, has been conditioned by the "known usual" and has slowed down its development and diffusion (voluntarily, of course).
QB64 is really a gem. the only flaw it has is not having a native windows-style window management. When you propose certain works, even valuable, the average user, intoxicated and plagiarized by propaganda, struggles to believe that it is a really good product.
But we know what the dynamics of each market are, especially the globalized market.
However, by its very nature, QB64 is true to its origins and that's fine.
Good luck with your work!
_____
Good luck, above all, for the COVID-19. Some governments downplay it, others want almost the entire population to be infected, others do what they can to put an end to the spread of the pandemic. Still others are pretending nothing. A lot of people, actually, pretend nothing.
In two years, I don't know how many will be left. God save us!
Excuse the OT argument but I think it is necessary to become aware of the issue as soon as possible. And pray.
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native windows-style window management.
Thank you for your kind welcome and support.
Can you explain more about what you mean by a lack of window management?
Thanks. :@)
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I mean that InForm is a great project but it is not integrated into the language and still emulates windows.
FreeBasic is born 'native' windows, it seems. The same for Lazarus. They are both very powerful tools but the second has a very closed and - in my experience - very rude community of programmers. And then it has absurd limits that I can't understand.
VB - and I agree with your judgment - can produce excellent results (from an image point of view) and has conditioned people to the standard one. Java... better to let it go...
However I understand that QB64 can't become an improved VB.
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I mean that InForm is a great project but it is not integrated into the language and still emulates windows.
I have yet to try my hand at InForm, but I'm looking forward to it. It appears to function as a code generator for visual GUI elements. Please correct me if I'm mistaken. If so, I've seen similar approaches with third-party GUI design applications like Liberty Workshop. Back in the day, Gfa BASIC came with a "Resource Editor" that performed a similar function.
However I understand that QB64 can't become an improved VB.
Not sure I would want it to. Frankly, if I can write GUI QB code and compile it for Mac and Raspberry Pi, I'm a happy camper.
:@)
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The answer to the first question is yes. The second I do not know. But you will find out soon, it takes little to try.
Maybe you've already got an idea but I recommend you choose an editor for QB64. His, which a clone of the classic one, I can't use it with decent productivity. I use Dav'sIDE - the maximum of the minimum - but there are others (few, but there are).
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Hi guys
Welcome CBTJD
here my point of view:
I have met at first Qbasic in old MsDos 5.0 and following versions, (great language but great wasting of time in coding because it'snot be able to compile an .EXE, the Qbasic /Run batch was very terrible), in second time I met QB (Wow Qbasic with more power and a compiler), and in little time also (as third step) Visual Basic for windows 3.0 (Wow a Basic for Windows OS, but not so BASIC) and at my eyes it was a mix of a prebuilt library for different goals (GUI, database and something else) in which you have many advantages vs QB (libraries for mouse, window and its components , file manager, database etc) but it showed many problems... it was very difficult to have a direct access to the hardware (INP, OUT, PEEK, POKE, CALL INTERRUPT, CALL ABSOLUTE) so in some points of view MsVB3.0 was a tight evolution of QB45 and QBPDS ( this last I'd never used).
The next step from MSVB3.0 to MSVB4.0 was a revolution! The programs became quicker than previous ones in runtime! My experience stops here with MSVB.
After a long period I came back to search BASIC for windows... MSVB was at VB express 2008 edition plus MSVB.NET ( I gave a look that let me run away, there was no BASIC and so they were zombies!!!) so on the web (in the meanwhile more opened and more navigable) I found RapidQ (a semiRAD BASIC with good documentation and few followers, but it is died from many years) and XBASIC (a lonely project with few sites and few community). I found also an utility to run QB/QBasic into windows 32bits with an windows' IDE not just using an emulator of DOS in Windows, but after time Windows closed the back compatibility with 16bit programs... so Goodbye!
Just 2-3 years ago I met Terry Ritchie's website Task and he showed me the pathway to reach this wonderful community!
After some years [abandoned, outdated and now likely malicious qb64 dot net website - don’t go there] dropped down and the QB64 team developers opened more websites. Some of these now are out, others lives. QB64.org put us together around QB64.
Qb64 has many powerful options...many pathway to travel to enrich itself with library or module like it has been done with Inform, vWatch and others less visible but powerful that different coders has posted , ...an active developers' team, now there are also efforts to solve the internationalization of the IDE and of I/O routines,
if I should find something that is not yet developed is a file manager... but I don't know how is hard to develop this system in a crossplatform language. In the windows side we can call dll of OS, but the friends that are in Mac or in Linux what can do to manage files and folders? I don't know.
The possibility to share opinions and experiences at different levels is unique.
Thanks QB64 community
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Okay, all set.
http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Word_search#QB64 (http://rosettacode.org/wiki/Word_search#QB64)
:@)
CBTJD:
C-1 = B, B-1 = A, T-1 = S, J-1 = I, D-1 = C
Hey cool! Thanks :)
A-1 = @