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Active Forums => QB64 Discussion => Topic started by: TempodiBasic on June 07, 2019, 01:48:42 pm

Title: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: TempodiBasic on June 07, 2019, 01:48:42 pm
Hi guys

YES TOXIC! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOZuxwVk7TU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOZuxwVk7TU)

What do you think of these experts?
https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/how-programming-affects-brain/ (https://www.makeuseof.com/tag/how-programming-affects-brain/)

this is the extract for those that are too lazy to read the whole article

Quote
“The use of COBOL cripples the mind; its teaching should, therefore, be regarded as a criminal offence.”

Quote
“It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration.”

Quote
“Programmers can obfuscate their variable or function names, but not the structures they subconsciously prefer to use or their favorite increment operators.”

Quote
So much so, in fact, that it’s actually possible to take anonymized code and determine who wrote it based solely on how the task was approached and how the code was written. The more difficult the task, the easier it is to “de-anonymize.”

Pete SAVE ME I have not only DISLEXYA (yet it is wrong or I have no dylesia, do you agree?)
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: TempodiBasic on June 07, 2019, 02:05:14 pm
I forgot the image
  [ This attachment cannot be displayed inline in 'Print Page' view ]  
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: Dimster on June 07, 2019, 02:15:48 pm
I think Pete is still reviewing TOXIC.
Interesting article but I would think it may be too subjective to rate one programming language over another. It would be like a trying to chose which horn makes the best music - a saxophone or trumpet.
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: freetrav on June 07, 2019, 03:07:37 pm
While there may be something to what the article says, I question whether the emphasis may be in the wrong place - in my experience, it's not that BASIC or COBOL is a crappy language (although they both do have 'features' that encourage poor practice); it's that most BASIC (or COBOL) instructors teach poorly. Even if you're using a low-end BASIC like Apple's Integer BASIC or AppleSoft BASIC, or Commodore's BASIC on the PET (rather than a mid-BASIC like GW-BASIC or BetterBASIC, or a high-end BASIC like QB/QB64, Visual BASIC, or CA-REALIZER), you can write well-structured, more-or-less modular code. However, you have to be taught to think about the problem in the structured way, rather than the sort of ad-hockery that people accuse BASIC (rather than BASIC instructors) of encouraging.

(I say that there may be something to what the article says, because I've experienced it - it doesn't matter what syntax I'm using, be it C, Pascal, BASIC, PowerShell, LISP, APL, or whatever; I have a tendency to "write my code in Pascal". This is a very pronounced tendency; when I took a 'survey of programming languages' course in college, one of the languages surveyed was APL. When I handed in the APL project, the instructor returned it with full marks, but also a written comment, "You're a Pascal programmer, aren't you?". He could tell from the way I wrote the APL, even though I used proper APL 'idioms' and shortcuts.)
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: Petr on June 07, 2019, 03:11:08 pm
Nice article, Tempo. It encouraged me. :-D

010101000110100001100001011011100110101100100000010110010110111101110101
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: RhoSigma on June 07, 2019, 03:55:31 pm
My first thought, you randomly typed ones and zeros to symbolize the mentioned "Brain Damage", but then, wait Petr is that Amiga guy who tries to get back the MOD playing to QB64, so my thought was to easy, no we Amiga fellows think even more different than the regular PC coders, do we?

Thank You :)
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: Petr on June 07, 2019, 04:24:20 pm
We're all in the same boat. That's why we're helping. But it is a fact that I am sometimes annoying. Mostly when my own code shows me that the error was again between the keyboard and the chair. :-D
If I had to describe the last problem ...  lot of conditions in program. Result? Dead mouse. 3 days. That was the price of my stupidity, before I found own bug...

The binary code is not random. It's two English words :-D
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: xra7en on June 07, 2019, 06:03:23 pm
Code: [Select]
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Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: johnno56 on June 07, 2019, 07:04:06 pm
IF ibnuts THEN looneybin$ = "True"

Nope! No damage there....

Pink Floyd = Brain Damage
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: Petr on June 07, 2019, 07:15:12 pm
Code: QB64: [Select]
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  2.  
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: TempodiBasic on June 07, 2019, 08:17:30 pm
Hey for this Google Translator doesn't work! :-(((
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: bplus on June 07, 2019, 08:49:36 pm
Code: QB64: [Select]
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  47. 01010111 01001000 01001001 01001100 01000101 00100000 01000101 01001111 01000110 00101000 00110001 00101001 00100000 00111101 00100000 00110000
  48. 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 01001100 01001001 01001110 01000101 00100000 01001001 01001110 01010000 01010101 01010100 00100000 00100011 00110001 00101100 00100000 01100110 01101100 01101001 01101110 01100101 00100100
  49. 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 01000111 01001111 01010011 01010101 01000010 00100000 01110100 01110010 01100001 01101110 01110011 01101100 01100001 01110100 01100101
  50. 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 01010000 01010010 01001001 01001110 01010100
  51. 01010111 01000101 01001110 01000100
  52. 01000011 01001100 01001111 01010011 01000101 00100000 00100011 00110001
  53. 01000101 01001110 01000100
  54.  
  55. 01110100 01110010 01100001 01101110 01110011 01101100 01100001 01110100 01100101 00111010
  56. 01101001 00100000 00111101 00100000 00110000
  57. 01100011 01101000 01100001 01110010 00100100 00100000 00111101 00100000 01000011 01001000 01010010 00100100 00101000 01010110 01000001 01001100 00101000 00100010 00100110 01000010 00100010 00100000 00101011 00100000 01001101 01001001 01000100 00100100 00101000 01100110 01101100 01101001 01101110 01100101 00100100 00101100 00100000 00101000 01101001 00101001 00100000 00101010 00100000 00111001 00100000 00101011 00100000 00110001 00101100 00100000 00111001 00101001 00101001 00101001
  58. 01010111 01001000 01001001 01001100 01000101 00100000 01001101 01001001 01000100 00100100 00101000 01100110 01101100 01101001 01101110 01100101 00100100 00101100 00100000 01101001 00100000 00101010 00100000 00111001 00100000 00101011 00100000 00110001 00101100 00100000 00111001 00101001 00100000 00111100 00111110 00100000 00100010 00100010
  59. 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 01010000 01010010 01001001 01001110 01010100 00100000 01100011 01101000 01100001 01110010 00100100 00111011
  60. 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 01101001 00100000 00111101 00100000 01101001 00100000 00101011 00100000 00110001
  61. 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 01100011 01101000 01100001 01110010 00100100 00100000 00111101 00100000 01000011 01001000 01010010 00100100 00101000 01010110 01000001 01001100 00101000 00100010 00100110 01000010 00100010 00100000 00101011 00100000 01001101 01001001 01000100 00100100 00101000 01100110 01101100 01101001 01101110 01100101 00100100 00101100 00100000 00101000 01101001 00101001 00100000 00101010 00100000 00111001 00100000 00101011 00100000 00110001 00101100 00100000 00111001 00101001 00101001 00101001
  62. 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 01011111 01001100 01001001 01001101 01001001 01010100 00100000 00110001 00110101 00110000
  63. 01010111 01000101 01001110 01000100
  64. 01010010 01000101 01010100 01010101 01010010 01001110
  65.  
  66. 01000110 01010101 01001110 01000011 01010100 01001001 01001111 01001110 00100000 01100010 01100001 01110011 01100101 00110010 00100100 00100000 00101000 01101110 00100101 00101001
  67. 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 01100010 00100100 00100000 00111101 00100000 00100010 00100010 00111010 00100000 01101010 00100101 00100000 00111101 00100000 00110000
  68. 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 01010111 01001000 01001001 01001100 01000101 00100000 00110010 00100000 01011110 00100000 01101010 00100101 00100000 00111100 00111101 00100000 01101110 00100101
  69. 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 01001001 01000110 00100000 00101000 01101110 00100101 00100000 01000001 01001110 01000100 00100000 00110010 00100000 01011110 00100000 01101010 00100101 00101001 00100000 00111110 00100000 00110000 00100000 01010100 01001000 01000101 01001110 00100000 01100010 00100100 00100000 00111101 00100000 00100010 00110001 00100010 00100000 00101011 00100000 01100010 00100100 00100000 01000101 01001100 01010011 01000101 00100000 01100010 00100100 00100000 00111101 00100000 00100010 00110000 00100010 00100000 00101011 00100000 01100010 00100100
  70. 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 01101010 00100101 00100000 00111101 00100000 01101010 00100101 00100000 00101011 00100000 00110001
  71. 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 01010111 01000101 01001110 01000100
  72. 00100000 00100000 00100000 00100000 01100010 01100001 01110011 01100101 00110010 00100100 00100000 00111101 00100000 01010010 01001001 01000111 01001000 01010100 00100100 00101000 01010011 01010100 01010010 01001001 01001110 01000111 00100100 00101000 00111000 00101100 00100000 00100010 00110000 00100010 00101001 00100000 00101011 00100000 01100010 00100100 00101100 00100000 00111000 00101001
  73. 01000101 01001110 01000100 00100000 01000110 01010101 01001110 01000011 01010100 01001001 01001111 01001110
  74.  
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: SMcNeill on June 07, 2019, 08:59:42 pm
And, I like Cheetos.
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: Cobalt on June 07, 2019, 10:06:23 pm
Cheese PUFFS!
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: Petr on June 08, 2019, 04:29:03 am
Nice source code, BPlus. I use rather _CLIPBOARD$ for direct decoding / coding this string instead of disc file access.
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: bplus on June 08, 2019, 10:21:42 am
Quote from: Petr on June 08, 2019, 04:29:03 am
Nice source code, BPlus. I use rather _CLIPBOARD$ for direct decoding / coding this string instead of disc file access.

Hi Petr,

I tried clipboard to QB64 IDE code line. Worked fine with short string but xra7en forced me to text file to get the whole line in a string variable to translate. The IDE was cutting the string short and hanging when I tried pasting it in so I could work on it.

Then you posted another long string reply so another text file... :)

So since I had decoding worked out, it was time to try my hand at coding. Of course with B+, one line is not enough! :D

So maybe you know something I don't about using _CLIPBOARD$ ? The first time ever I tried it was for doing Color CONSTants. How else do you get the string into a place where you can work on it with code?

Quote from: TempodiBasic on June 07, 2019, 08:17:30 pm
Hey for this Google Translator doesn't work! :-(((

Hi TempodiBasic,

Maybe this will help:
Code: QB64: [Select]
  2.     INPUT "Enter a letter "; in$
  3.     b$ = n2b2$(ASC(in$))
  4.     PRINT "Binary = "; b$
  5.     n2% = b2n%(b$)
  6.     PRINT "Back again to letter (as check of function) :"; CHR$(n2%)
  8.  
  9. FUNCTION b2n% (b2$)
  10.     b2n% = VAL("&B" + b2$)
  12.  
  13. FUNCTION n2b2$ (n%) 'for 8 bits
  14.     IF n% < 0 OR n% > 255 THEN BEEP: EXIT FUNCTION ' beep for error
  15.     b$ = "": j% = 0
  16.     WHILE 2 ^ j% <= n%
  17.         IF (n% AND 2 ^ j%) > 0 THEN b$ = "1" + b$ ELSE b$ = "0" + b$
  18.         j% = j% + 1
  19.     WEND
  20.     n2b2$ = RIGHT$(STRING$(8, "0") + b$, 8)
  22.  
  23.  

Quote from: SMcNeill on June 07, 2019, 08:59:42 pm
And, I like Cheetos.
Quote from: Cobalt on June 07, 2019, 10:06:23 pm
Cheese PUFFS!

Well, the chips are in the Blackjack thread.
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: bplus on June 08, 2019, 11:14:28 am
Update: I just tried again pasting long strings from Clipboard, ie from forum code box to IDE editor because I remember being able to copy long PI string from browser to IDE.

I don't know what happened last night but I have no problem doing that today.

Ah, must be true about the damage...  :-))
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: Pete on June 08, 2019, 11:49:40 am
You scientists are mostly idiots with degrees to convince other idiots they know what they are talking about. Thank God their are some exceptions or we'd still be trying to figure out indoor plumbing. Don't worry Steve, I hear it's coming to Virginia any day now! Well, I should talk. The way California is going, will probably be building outdoor facilities for homeless people by the thousands, but I digress...

So we have high level and low level languages. That's great. It means we have something for everyone. I like to put building blocks together, but if I have to go lower than BASIC, like C, Assembly, or Machine code, I'd stop coding. Lucky for me, I don't want a job with a company that would require me to be a C or Java coder. If I ever changed my mid about that, I would need to make some adjustments to my coding style and approach. BASIC let's us skips a lot of crap like declaring variables. I like that. Provided BASIC can get me what I want, I'm completely delighted with the language. Now that I'm older, I think coding regularly does keep me sharp, if I can remember where I put my keyboard. Anyway, it all gets converted into machine code by the compiler, so maybe it's just human nature to divide up into camps to find faults with other tribes. My philosophy is use whatever tool you can be the most productive with. You can't lose if you follow that advice. 

Pete

Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: Qwerkey on June 08, 2019, 12:47:51 pm
Quote from: Pete on June 08, 2019, 11:49:40 am
Now that I'm older, I think coding regularly does keep me sharp

Oh, yeah?

Quote from: Pete on June 08, 2019, 11:49:40 am
Thank God their are some exceptions or we'd still be trying to figure out indoor plumbing.
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: Pete on June 08, 2019, 01:28:32 pm
Sorry, they're.

Pete
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: Bert22306 on June 08, 2019, 08:06:39 pm
Quote from: Pete on June 08, 2019, 01:28:32 pm
Sorry, they're.

Uuuh, still wrong. Before Fellippe gets rightfully indignant about "native speakers,"

"Thank God THERE are some exceptions ..."

(Of course, knowing Pete, he was aware of this. He may feel free to depreciate my comment. Or was that deprecate?)

Back to the main topic, I'm certainly not an expert programmer or anything like that. However, I've been able to make sense of Pascal code with little trouble. I don't see it as being so fundamentally different from Basic. (And am grateful that Basic was the survivor.)
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: Pete on June 08, 2019, 08:24:08 pm
Yeah, sorry Bert. During Gay Pride Month, I get a little homophonic.

I agree with you about the Pascal language, it's very close to BASIC, but limited in scope, so BASIC 1, Pascal 0. Dammit, now we're back to binary!

Pete
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: Ashish on June 08, 2019, 11:48:45 pm
Hi! I disagree with this. I think BASIC not toxic but it is a tonic.
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: TempodiBasic on June 09, 2019, 07:48:57 am
Hi Guys

fine to talk with you!

@Bplus
thank you very much to save me from my lazyness!
You're precious!

@Ashis
Yes I can affirm in my  little experience as  coder  that among QBasic, TurboPascal (I never met an academic Pascal with no pointers and no strings), TurboC/C++, ASM, VisualBasic, RapidQ  I find more suitable that of old DOS because that OS gives you little limitation (and also little direct access to machine, but by language you can do so many things) while the generation of these languages for windowed OS are too shrinked and stricted in OS structures.
However I find BASIC (Qbasic and QB64) the place where I feel to code with liberty (no INT in QB64 for windows I think)
In summary:
BASIC = be free but COMAL is also good https://sys64738.org/2019/02/comal-la-strana-storia-di-un-linguaggio-dimenticato/ (https://sys64738.org/2019/02/comal-la-strana-storia-di-un-linguaggio-dimenticato/) (I met it here when an our member posted info about it)


@Pete
my thread is a joke but I don't know if the authors of the articles do the same!
It is true that each our activity has its corrispondence in our brain and our mind and our soul.
But can we say that a violinist is smarter than a mathematician or than a baker or than a fisher or than a painter? Or has  Each one his own intelligence developed for his activity?
Also using a different human language we tend to use more some expressions than other expressions... it is evident for you when you read my Italian_English :-)  But can human language affect IQ results? Yes if I speak English and the test is written in Greek with greek cultural background. (if you think valid the measure of IQ to have a digital valutation of some mental skills)
Going down to coding languages, mutatis mutantis, different High Level Languages and Low level languages use different kind of structures for managing data and performing actions in a PC or other similar electronic machine. So I'll tend to use more some kind of structures versus other structures and these will be the tools that I use in problem solving. But setting a task (for example a login) , can you say that is better a program written in QB64 or that written in PHP or that written in Delphi or that written in Java o that written in C++? If the performance is done well IMHO I cannot choose what is the best one! I can talk about the dimension of the file executable or about the dimension of the whole program, about the time taken to do this task, about the dimension of the RAM used  and so many other aspects of running the program in a specific machine.
Please remember Protagora's and Socrate's messages https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protagora (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protagora)  & https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrate (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socrate)
Quote
Protagora:
Man is the measure of all things, of those that are for what they are, and of those that are not for that they are not

Socrate:
know to no know

@Bert22036

Bert
I have no knowledge in market diffusion but
why do you affirm that Pascal is dead?  For windows it seems that there is Object Pascal and Delphi, and FreePascal

See here a tool developed today in FreePascal
https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/PeaZip (https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/PeaZip)


I thanks all you for these flourishing feedbacks
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: Pete on June 09, 2019, 03:31:05 pm
Well, you can thank the dogs at Microsoft for keeping VB alive in the .net project. It's unfortunate they refused to do the same with QBasic. I've tried VB, but found it too limited. Like many OOP languages, you lose an ability to build what you want, and have to settle for what the language library provides. FORTRAN keeps popping up in these ratings, too. javascript, well, no surprise there. It's my GOTO language when I'm working on websites. I never liked JAVA. I have a friend that left QB for Python. He still likes BASIC better, but he wanted to stay up with a leading language he thought he could tolerate, I guess.

Pete
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: Aurel on June 10, 2019, 01:02:21 am
a ,,aaaaaa,aaaaaaaaaa i

C++ is just a ugly incarnation of C by  brain damage author
python is ugly and fake incarnation of C++
OLD procedural PASCAL is good and i learned it in high school and i like it.
new Object pacal simply is not Pascal if you ask me.
VB-net ..yes it is ugly with all this UDT - dots but still is BASIC dialect.
VB6 is nice but i never spend more time using it.
QuickBasic - nice , but i don't do any programming in DOS time so i skipped it.
Java..hmmm heavy
JavaScript - little bit better but for web
ASS-EMBLER ...i feel pain in AS* when i tried to use it
Carl Gundel - fake expert
etc..etc.... 
Title: Re: Brain damage! Alert BASIC is Toxic!
Post by: doppler on June 12, 2019, 08:09:57 pm
Quote from: SMcNeill on June 07, 2019, 08:59:42 pm
And, I like Cheetos.
Wrong the correct quote is "I like turtles"
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