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Active Forums => QB64 Discussion => Topic started by: TerryRitchie on October 30, 2018, 05:37:31 pm

Title: The future of QB64
Post by: TerryRitchie on October 30, 2018, 05:37:31 pm
The following article is a good read: https://www.tomshardware.com/news/play-windows-games-linux-steam-play,37990.html

Back in 2015 Valve was sounding the alarm that Microsoft's intention is to one day only allow Microsoft approved apps to be installed on Windows computers through the Windows store. To this end Valve became heavily involved in the Linux community helping to develop WINE further so more PC games could be played on the Linux platform. For years this looked like it had stalled but as the above article highlights they have come a long way.

So why do I bring this up? Well, when the switch to approved only apps happens this means that programs will need to be in the UWP (Universal Windows Platform) format leaving QB64 out in the cold. My guess is, and this is just my opinion, this change will happen soon after Windows 7 end of life. I'm sure at first traditional software will be allowed in the store but over time, slowly but surely, legacy software will be pushed aside in favor of UWP.

The future of QB64 after that? In one word ... Linux. Valve increasingly making it more popular for gamers to move to Linux will mean that soon after Windows 7 end of life we'll probably see an influx of users to Linux. Over time (with any luck) Windows will become a wasteland of Windows store apps that no one wants and Windows itself will become a has-been (Zune anyone?).

My point, I believe more development in the Linux arena should be considered now for the future of QB64. We'll see how this pans out 5 years from now, but my humble guess is this will happen and it's going to be ugly.
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: Cobalt on October 30, 2018, 07:18:28 pm
and what about those of us that still use Vista, and if possible never move on,  and those that still use XP?
Just dump us in the cold outright?

Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: bplus on October 30, 2018, 09:38:50 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events
(I am not seeing Sir Isaac Newton's prediction.)

I don't remember the year 2000 when everything was supposed to go to hell. ( I do remember 2001 !)

2012 Mayan end of the world.

Yawn

But go ahead and predict away, maybe someone will repent and start using Linux. :)

It's Halloween, boo!

Hey this just came on U tube:
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: TerryRitchie on October 31, 2018, 12:35:00 am
Quote
and what about those of us that still use Vista, and if possible never move on,  and those that still use XP?
Just dump us in the cold outright?

Nope, not saying that at all. QB64 versions made for these versions of Windows will still work fine.

Quote
Windows 7 will be the platform of choice for traditional Windows apps and not Win10 as it will automatically upgrade itself into oblivion.

Eventually Windows 7 will become unusable. Try running Windows 2000 or even XP on modern hardware. The driver support just isn't available any longer for these versions. Hardware Evolves: MFM, RLL, IDE, EIDE, SATA, M.2, USB1.0, 1.1, 2.0, 2.1, 3.0, etc.. Hardware eventually outpaces operating systems. Sure, the hardcore hobbyist or technophile may find a way to make it last a bit longer, but that's a niche' crowd.

Quote
ReactOS will have achieved usability as a beta by then and you will be able to run your QB64 apps on ReactOS.

ReactOS has been promising usability for a loooong time now. Won't happen. Sorry.

Quote
My workaround for the Windows UWP problem is to abandon Windows, adopt Kubuntu as my base host

Exactly! You just proved my point.

Quote
ReactOS is not stable enough to run multiple applications but is stable enough to run a single application on a VM.

You don't want to rely on the recipients of the software you write to have the ability to install and maintain VMs.

Quote
Look at UWP as the death of Windows and the birth of something better

That's what I did, hence this post.

Quote
Windows store-only apps? VB6 available via the windows store? They can't do it.

Well then even more reason to look with urgency at the future.

Quote
The future is bright, the future is NOT Microsoft.

Uh, yeah, my point exactly.
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: SMcNeill on October 31, 2018, 01:15:18 am
Honestly, I don't think Windows is going anywhere anytime soon.  It controls over 4/5 of the desktop/laptop market, and that means it's where the $$$ is.  https://www.statista.com/statistics/218089/global-market-share-of-windows-7/

For programmers, we ask ourselves, "Which system lets me do my own stuff the easiest?", and Windows is becoming less and less often the answer to that question.

For most consumers, it's a case of, "Which has the most games and apps?"

For most companies that product games and apps, it's a question of, "Which system will make me the most money??"

As long as MS keeps 4/5 of the market, they'll keep the "professional programmers" working to sell to that market -- no matter what hoops they have to make their monkeys.... errrr...  programmers, leap through.

It's a self sustaining loop: MS dominates the largest share of the market.  Companies produce to where they make the most money.  Consumers buy where they have the most options.

************************

Linux is excellent, but it'll never break that cycle for one major reason:  It's FREE.

No money for companies = no interest in paying employees to produce software.
No professional software = no consumers.
No consumers = No market dominance, which feeds to "no money for companies".

*************************

Consider the difference in how much money MS makes on Office each year, vs. how much OpenOffice earns... Which can pay folks to develop it more?  Spend more on advertising?  Afford to go from company to company, trying to sell "Enterprise Editions"?

Windows isn't going away anytime soon.

Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: bplus on October 31, 2018, 11:18:21 am
I thought I was trying to make a point about predictions but given the Halloween season and the political rhetoric of late my thoughts may have drifted over to the dark side...

After reading your replies and review of past history, I have to say MS isn't that unpredictable...

Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: Cobalt on October 31, 2018, 12:43:17 pm
Quote
and what about those of us that still use Vista, and if possible never move on,  and those that still use XP?
Just dump us in the cold outright?

Nope, not saying that at all. QB64 versions made for these versions of Windows will still work fine.

but in fact you did, by my point of view with,
My point, I believe more development in the Linux arena should be considered now for the future of QB64.
and
QB64 versions made for these versions of Windows will still work fine.

which to me says" make any further enhancements\updates solely directed towards a Linux OS."
as in who cares if it works with Windows(or Macintosh) they can have the old outdated junk, as long as linux has all the nice new stuff.

does that mean we should just leave the Macintosh using members of our community out in the cold as well? granted it seems that is what Apple wants to do to its Macintosh OS users, and hopefully Microsoft will see the folly in that and not follow Apple down that path with its Windows OS.

Saying we should focus development of QB64 down any singular path, to me, feels counter to QB64s greatest aspect of being usable by all. And while we have no control over what OS manufactures do with their product, we do have control over QB64 lets not go the route of discrimination.
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: TempodiBasic on October 31, 2018, 03:02:56 pm
Hi guys
how do you agree with this classification about OS?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-iH-b_SPVg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-iH-b_SPVg)
and this sentence...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH3v41JmyIg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH3v41JmyIg)
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: Bert22306 on October 31, 2018, 05:21:46 pm
I remember the nonsense about Windows closing in its ecosystem, much as Apple has done from the start. If this happens, I agree that the natural choice would be Linux.

But someone at M$ must understand that the ONLY reason they have dominated the market is that that have never had such a closed ecosystem. Closed ecosystems are the kiss of death, or at least, one great way to make your product a niche product. Like Mac.

Parenthetically, my prediction is that the Mac will disappear, and will be replaced by an improved iOS tablet with attached keyboard. Apple has become mostly an iOS vendor these days. Anyway, if M$ wants to become like Apple, great for profits but not for market dominance, well, let's at least hope they go that route cluefully.

I haven't heard anything lately about walling in the UWP ecosystem, but what Terry suggests is credible. Could happen when Windows 7 stops being supported, which should be in 2020. Not that far in the future anymore. One reason I never bought Apple anything is just that. Their closed system.
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: Pete on October 31, 2018, 05:47:15 pm
I've always based my level of success on exceptional present time consciousness. If I could only combine that with as much attention to predicting the future, Trump would be MY Vice President... instead of my President. Oh well.

Facebook will be failing in 5 years. My only prediction concerning computing to date. I just think the interest in social media is somewhat more fad based than fan based. Still, something will have to replace it,and I don't know what it will be.

Microsoft apparently is not going to give up the whole One-Drive cloud computing app subscription lease your software bullshit. They re the big dog when it comes to computing, so as they go, so goes the Hello World. It's a damn shame.

Programming hobbyists will have to migrate to Linux to keep up their hobby. As much as I hate having to be both a computer hobbyist and a programmer, I have to weigh the future with keep or quit in regards to coding. Keep will require running QB64 on Linux.

Pete

Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: STxAxTIC on October 31, 2018, 06:18:55 pm
Can I ask a rather oblivious (maybe rhetorical at this point) question?

Why not adapt or re-do QB64 so that it *will* be satisfied by whomever sets the standard for the Windows Store? With an *actual* target like that, I could possibly conceive that some of us could combine our strengths and do what's needed. (Hell, maybe I'll actually get involved!)

EDIT: This too: Why think inside the box only? Target JavaScript like Galleon was saying, and you kill SO many birds with the same stone. Free of any OS, universal, the list goes on and on. Yeah, I'm all for a JavaScript target. And to whip the naysayers into shape right out of the gates, I point out that Xampp (for running JS locally) is a very handy install, regardless of QB64's status.
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: Pete on October 31, 2018, 06:23:47 pm
Google made a JavaScript BASIC. It's crap compared to QB64, yet it's out there.

Pete
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: STxAxTIC on October 31, 2018, 06:30:22 pm
Quick correction to the above, given my fragile knowledge on this:

A Google employee recently started a thing called wwwbasic, and is still very early in the grand scheme of the project - in theory. (There's your bait, Pete.) Our very own Fellippeheitor is a contributor to the thing, so he could say more, and I'll leave that to him. The thing will never be "as compatible" to QB45 as QB64 is right now... But since "right now" and "QB64" might not belong in the same sentence in a few years, I think we should encourage and popularize any effort to immortalize BASIC as JavaScript. It's only the most widely-used language in the world, why would we ever target it? ;-)    (And there's some bait for Steve too.)
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: TempodiBasic on October 31, 2018, 08:52:09 pm
Hi guys
just a little question...
I read Javascript, but surely you don't want say Java... so here my question
How Javascript can cover QB64 performance being a browser interpreted language?
Can Java cover QB64 performance and extend platform to android and iphone systems?
Somewhere I read that natural evolution of BASIC programmers is Java. How much you agree about this sentence (1= no ... 10 = Yes).
How much difficult is for a C++ programmer write in Java? How ripid is the curve of learning?
What kind of power do you find if you founding QB64 on JavaScript? And on Java?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTto0CWwDVo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTto0CWwDVo)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo5I6I3BdLU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wo5I6I3BdLU)

Thanks to read
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: Pete on October 31, 2018, 09:01:45 pm
Bait? Like I'll get sucked into a debate? I'll have you know I'm a master... wait... anyway, I actually don't have a problem with whatever language QB64 translates into... unless, of course, it's FreeBASIC. That's just stupid... on both levels.

@Terry: Thanks for this post topic!

Pete
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: TerryRitchie on November 01, 2018, 02:41:13 am
You're welcome :)
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: Bert22306 on November 01, 2018, 01:56:14 pm
Maybe not quite so dire, yerever. The blocky look might apply to parts of the IDE maybe, like whatever it's called that surrounds the IDE, but not to everything. I mean, QB64 would be an app, just like MS Word is an app. Ultimately, you type documents in MS Word pretty much like we always have done. And what's more, you can create documents (or viewgraphs, spreadsheets) that look like whatever you want them to look like. Microsoft is not going to police the format of your output!

Hopefully, we're making too big a deal of this.
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: davidshq on November 03, 2018, 01:41:48 pm
So, bplus pointed me over to this conversation as I was remarking on recently submitting (and successfully publishing) a QB64 app to the Windows Store. FYI, it isn't that hard to make a traditional Win32 app into a UWP app...because you don't truly have to.

Microsoft has a tool called Desktop App Converter that packages up Win32 apps into appx format. There are some changes that have to be made (I'm working through some related to creating/deleting/saving files) but it seems pretty viable to me and I know there are other, bigger apps that are now in Windows store that still are Win32 apps under the hood.

All that to say, without a ton of work, it should be possible to get QB64 into a pseudo UWP format that will last long into the future. :)

On the other hand, I'm watching things happening with WebAssembly (WASM). Using WASM it might be possible to swap out the C/C++ compiler and use WASM instead to create web apps...but I'm still learning about WASM.
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: Pete on November 03, 2018, 02:40:05 pm
My guess is most of us who started with QBASIC, QB45 (QuickBASIC) are not onboard with any more Microsoft BS. I bet I spent half my time f'ing around with compatibility issues to convert QB programs to QB64 programs to go from for Windows XP to Vista/7. Now they want to go to apps. What's next? If I still had my practice I would have bought a dozen Windows 7 computers two years ago.

Pete
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: SMcNeill on November 04, 2018, 03:01:21 pm
Why would anyone tie themselves to MS??

Because they're no different than any other OS out there -- with one exception: it currently works.

Linux and QB64 is now completely unusable.  I just downloaded the latest version of Mint and installed it.  Installed QB64 after... 

It builds.  It makes the executable... 

It won't run.  At all.  Zilch.  Nada.  Nope.

This may be an issue with needing the "-no-pie" switch set, but if so, I can't get it to work for me.  Without -no-pie being set, the executables built are described as TYPE: Unknown.  They're not runnable programs.

With the -no-pie set, they become executables again, but you're limited to console only programs.  NO IDE.  NO GRAPHICS. Hell, you can't even have a program run in screen 0!!  Just $CONSOLE:ONLY...

No thanks.  I'll pass.

**************************

Mac, of course, doesn't work with QB64 currently.  They've depreciated OpenGL -- which we depend on -- and currently you have to download a beta version of MacOS to try and get QB64 to work.

And, if we're talking future predictions, Mac has a bad habit of obsoleting things they depreciated just a few years ago.  Even if today's beta version of Mac runs QB64, chances are it's time is limited before they decide OpenGL doesn't work at all for them anymore.

************************

So WHY stick to Windows??

Because nothing else works worth a shit any more.
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: Pete on November 04, 2018, 03:05:02 pm
@Steve:

What about SHELL in LINUX? I would think something would have to be added to emulate the same SHELL commands as in the MS COMMAND window routines.

Pete
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: STxAxTIC on November 04, 2018, 03:20:37 pm
Y'all are missing the point routinely about JavaScript. It's your only good target if the OS's are gonna rip the rug from under your feet. Does anyone else remember Galleon's last big ambition for QB64? I'm definitely not alone in this opinion.
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: SMcNeill on November 04, 2018, 03:22:40 pm
@Steve:

What about SHELL in LINUX? I would think something would have to be added to emulate the same SHELL commands as in the MS COMMAND window routines.

Pete

No idea.  I can't even get QB64 to start with a new Linux Distro; so there's no way to test how SHELL might work with it.  I had a copy of Mint 17 -- QB64 no longer works with it.  Grabbed a new copy of Mint 19 -- QB64 doesn't work with it. 

I'm going to give it one more try with a completely different system (RedHat maybe), and if that doesn't work, I'm through with trying to get Linux to work with QB64. 

Win 10 might be a pain the ass, but at least it works.
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: TerryRitchie on November 04, 2018, 03:24:32 pm
Quote
So WHY stick to Windows??

Because nothing else works worth a shit any more.

This is why I believe a concerned look at the status of QB64 in Linux needs to be taken into account. Again, this is my opinion, but I believe within 5 years a major shift from Windows to Linux will start to be evident and 10 years from now Linux will be much more mainstream than it is today.

Heck, just look at System76's success in this area. I remember reading about this company five years ago and almost every tech news outlet was forecasting doom and gloom in their future. Remember netbooks that became popular back in 2009? Most, if not all of them, at first came shipped with Linux and they worked well. Microsoft was so scared by this that they offered a stripped down version of XP for darn near nothing to netbook manufacturers to curb the Linux installations.

News outlets have been saying "This is the year for Linux" since 1999 so there is a lot of skepticism about Linux actually becoming mainstream at some point. However, I think there is a perfect storm brewing in the not so distant future and QB64 needs to be ready for it.
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: FellippeHeitor on November 04, 2018, 03:31:17 pm
Quote
Linux and QB64 is now completely unusable.

That’s your experience, Steve. Not mine, not Luke’s, not a lot of people’s. That type of statement is highly misleading.
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: STxAxTIC on November 04, 2018, 03:34:17 pm
Quote
Linux and QB64 is now completely unusable.

Yeah about that - you know that double clicking the icon doesn't start the program, right?
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: Pete on November 04, 2018, 03:47:53 pm
This is what puts me off from trying Linux. I'm concerned I have to get overly involved with learning too much about a Linux system, so my time will not be spent on coding, moving other programs to it, etc. In Pete terms, I want as close to plug and play and not plug away, as possible.

Pete
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: SMcNeill on November 04, 2018, 03:51:53 pm
Quote
Linux and QB64 is now completely unusable.

That’s your experience, Steve. Not mine, not Luke’s, not a lot of people’s. That type of statement is highly misleading.

Apparently it's an experience a lot of folks are having:  https://www.qb64.org/forum/index.php?topic=552.msg4038#msg4038

Quote
fresh install of QB64 (latest stable version) on the latest release of Linux Mint as well a few days ago - both the QB64 executable itself, as well as the compiled executables themselves, could not be executed by double-clicking them in the file manager (although, in my case at least, the compilation itself worked), because they were misidentified as "shared libraries" instead of executables (all permissions are set correctly). Running them from the terminal window works fine, though.

The compilation worked.  It made executables for me...  That were as useful as a paperweight. 

Double-clicking does nothing, as described. 

Running them from terminal only worked with $CONSOLE:ONLY programs.

I dunno if it's a video driver issue, a Linux Distro issue (both his and my experiences are on Mint), but just because you didn't experience it doesn't mean it's not happening.  I'm primarily a Windows user, but I have used Linux more than once in the past (mainly for testing compatability of code), and I can tell ya:  It's not working as packaged now, anymore than Mac is unless you get the beta version.

How many Linux systems are affected, I don't know, but it's more than just me.  Fifi's reported it.  dchr has reported it.  I've experienced it... 

I'm glad yours works.  Mine doesn't.

And, for now at least, I can still say Windows still does.
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: Pete on November 04, 2018, 04:23:28 pm
I'm close to ditching all of this bullsht. Life is too short to keep redoing things from scratch. To that end, I'm considering getting a couple of new systems and banking them for later years. Take out Windows 10 and replace with Windows 7. Everything I would want working would work, except I'm not sure if email providers would still be viable on Win 7 Live Mail.

Pete
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: TempodiBasic on November 04, 2018, 04:49:36 pm
Hi

jump this if you want be focused on the issue of the thread.
I am very profane of Linux...and in the time I have developed a mine, surely wrong, idea of Linux...
while DOS and Windowses  are products that remember me a selfKilling programmed in the time like apopthosis of cells,
Linux's universe appears to me like a solid trunk with so many not so robust branches...
but this is only my idea...
going to the facts
this is my experience about Lubuntu (Light Ubuntu) 14.04 (yes there is another more recent)...
I have a machine that is old 8 years and run Lubuntu but doesn't install QB64 on it, while on my VirtualMachine on my Toshiba notebook I have many trouble to install QB64 on it also following all your good tips... it lasts me to get direct help online from experts like Fifi.
But for now it is a must!
All that I have reached is to get QB64 into Programming folder, but it doesn't run in any way I call it.

Read here:
1.
foundig QB64 on another language into translate as Javascript/Java it makes QB64 indipendent from OSes variations ?
2.
closing QB64 in Linux (when it will work for main distros) how is it possible not loose Mac and Windows platforms?

Thanks to read

Most popular Linux :
https://www.lifewire.com/top-linux-distributions-of-all-time-4084559 (https://www.lifewire.com/top-linux-distributions-of-all-time-4084559)
https://blog.storagecraft.com/popular-linux-distributions-dominate-market/ (https://blog.storagecraft.com/popular-linux-distributions-dominate-market/)
https://www.zdnet.com/article/whats-the-most-popular-linux-of-them-all/ (https://www.zdnet.com/article/whats-the-most-popular-linux-of-them-all/)
https://www.techradar.com/news/best-linux-distro (https://www.techradar.com/news/best-linux-distro)
https://itsfoss.com/windows-like-linux-distributions/ (https://itsfoss.com/windows-like-linux-distributions/)
https://www.tecmint.com/best-alternative-linux-distributions-for-windows-users/ (https://www.tecmint.com/best-alternative-linux-distributions-for-windows-users/)
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: STxAxTIC on November 04, 2018, 05:41:41 pm
Looks like anon1 never heard of Xampp. Give that a search and get back to me. You have all the system resources you want if your browser thinks you're the server. Obviously not as much hardware access as GL had, but thats a welcome cancer removal as far as I care. Browsers running qb65 (the next version, whatever it is) are more than capable at being faster and vaster than qb64 is now. Better look into it before you shit on it, just sayin.
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: STxAxTIC on November 04, 2018, 06:09:27 pm
K, juss makin' sure. Didn't mean to assume.

Tell me you've seen this vid - its been passed around quite a bit.

https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death-of-javascript (https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death-of-javascript)
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: codeguy on November 04, 2018, 06:34:05 pm
My contribution to the future of QB64 will be small, yet significant. I am working on a stable Polyphase Merge, aka External Merge, used heavily in Big Data applications. It will involve of course, MergeInsert(), TreeSort() allowing multiple same-key entries, a file parser (cr, crlf or other character(s) delimited) and of course the output will be STABLY sorted, exactly like the Big Boys of Big Data do, in a user-definable maximum memory partition. I have tested it to M = 8 KBytes, enough for 682 LongInt values and the 341 necessary for the n/2 version of merge in my sorting library. Yes, this creates THOUSANDS of files, but they are cleared as the Polyphase Merge progresses. Yes, it is dramatically slower than standard MergeSort, but able to handle as much data as the medium can hold. Grab your coffee, this process, while O(NLogN) is limited by the input/output medium, whichever is slower and the efficiency of TreeSort(), used as a B-tree. Those are the dominant factors. I am roughly to the actual merge process, a bit different with the priming reads necessary for classic disk-based merge. Remember, this algorithm is designed for very low high-speed memory constraints, exactly as the widely used version employed nearly everywhere Big Data is a regular issue. First, make it work correctly, then make it fast. The attached picture illustrates the merge path for odd and even numbers of files to be merged. If the file count ends in anl even number, there are an odd number of files and this leftover is merged.with the most recent file created by a binary (two file) merge. This procedure is repeated until one file containing all the data is created. Using a different approach will make this FAR slower and unusable garbage for a extremely large datasets.
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: SMcNeill on November 05, 2018, 04:04:59 am
How is it used? A Polyphase Merge... I feel like a child with all those words I don't understand.

Basically, think of taking a file that's too big to load into memory and trying to sort it.

For example, let's say I want to sort all the sentences in the books in the library to see which ones are the most repeated.  First, we gather a crapload of text from a crapload of books (start here if you want: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_digital_library_projects ), and amass a HUGE dataset.  (And it doesn't even have to be that huge if you're on a 32-bit computer with a 2GB memory limit per program.)

Now, can you imagine that datafile?  How do you sort something that massive??

You break it down into smaller units and then sort those, then merge them back together.

In this case, you might break it down to 26 files to start with...  You'd open the huge master data file, and read one sentence at a time.  According to what letter the sentence started with, you'd write a copy of that sentence into the corresponding file.  "A ... " sentences would go in file #1.  "B..." sentences would go into file #2.  And so on, down to "Z..." sentences.

Then you sort those files if they're small enough to fit in memory now -- OR, you repeat the process and divide another 26 times, separated by the second letter -- repeating the process until you divide the contents and sort each individual part; and then you basically reassemble them all back together again.

Poly -- Many
Phase -- Step
Merge -- to put together

It's basically just breaking an over large sorting task into smaller parts, using Many Steps To Put it back Together in a sorted order. 

Not hard to understand at all.  :D
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: SMcNeill on November 05, 2018, 11:52:52 am
Tell me you've seen this vid - its been passed around quite a bit.
https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death-of-javascript (https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death-of-javascript)

Very good recommendation - that has opened my mind quite a bit...

I agree with the guy in the video on one thing: Nobody codes in JavaScript.  In the last few years, the most I've used JavaScript was for this:

Code: QB64: [Select]
  1. javascript:var%20p=document.getElementsByTagName('*');for(i=0;i%3Cp.length;i++)%7Bif(p%5Bi%5D.style.fontSize)%7Bvar%20s=parseInt(p%5Bi%5D.style.fontSize.replace(%22px%22,%22%22));%7Delse%7Bvar%20s=12;%7Ds+=2;p%5Bi%5D.style.fontSize=s+%22px%22%7D

And what's that for??

Save a bookmark on your tablet or phone, however you do it in your browser.  Then, edit the link and replace it with that script...

Now, whenever you click that link, you can enlarge the fonts on your screen so you can read without straining your eyes.  Click it as many times as needed, and when you want to return to normal, just refresh the page.

And that's all I've actually used JS for in the last few years.  How about you guys?  :P
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: STxAxTIC on November 05, 2018, 12:18:16 pm
Lol. I will let someone else bulldog this one. Educate Steve for me.
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: Pete on November 05, 2018, 05:18:05 pm
I don't use JavaScript enough to remember it well, so I always have o go reference it, but I have used it extensively over quite a few years for website development.

Pete
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: SMcNeill on November 06, 2018, 10:07:49 am
Mentioning ReactOS a few times, this is timely:
https://www.reactos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17936 (https://www.reactos.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=17936)
ReactOS 0.4.10 released (Alpha).

and you can see the state of testing with real world apps that you and I might use.

https://reactos.org/wiki/Tests_for_0.4.10 (https://reactos.org/wiki/Tests_for_0.4.10)

ReactOs is a pipe dream, in my opinion.  V0.2 was released back in 2004.  In the past 14 years, they've improved to V0.4.  At this rate, it'll be the year 2060 before they release version 1.0.

By the time they implement 32-bit Windows functionality, Windows will be using 128-bit systems...  :P
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: Pete on November 06, 2018, 10:19:27 am
Reactos looks like all the time was spent getting applications that won't run on it to successfully install. I mean as much as I hate Microsoft as a company, as a company they have hired and put to work hundreds of programmers on every release. Just glancing at the wiki for Reactos demonstrates how many apps need this type of attention to work. Couple that with keeping up with new apps and changes in apps and the project looks like one that could have only been successful back in the days of Windows 95, when there were a lot less complicated apps.

I wonder if the definition of "progress" needs to be updated? Maybe it should be written as: pro'gress, meaning problematic regression.

Pete
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: Pete on November 06, 2018, 11:37:21 am
9-million lines of code... and still growing. I wonder how many of those lines contain GOTO statements? I wonder how many contributors they have, and what time each has donated to the project. It seems to me that they have many apps that work with windows they have managed to get installed, but most don't appear to work. That's a lot of debugging, and if they keep bringing in new people, it is a lot of redundancy getting newbies up to speed. In terms of getting things accomplished, this is where paid software beats the crap out of Open Source projects.

Pete
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: SMcNeill on November 06, 2018, 11:51:16 am
Reactos looks like all the time was spent getting applications that won't run on it to successfully install.

Not really, that list changes all the time and that's due to structural changes being implemented, those regressions can often be simple, ReactOS was missing SO much initially but recently it has been receiving a lot of the fundamental fixes and the list of working apps is growing and growing as those are put in place.

For me, ReactOS will be usable when I can run Photoshop on it, my default editor RJTextEd and a javascript engine or two. It isn't far off that. I feel a test run coming on tonight in a VM.

As I said in my previous posts, from monitoring ReactOS' recent progress, the outlook looks very positive and in five years time (which is the timescales for any changes that MS might implement causing problems for apps like QB64)  then ReactOS looks a good escape plan for a variety of outcomes.

Honestly, isn't it just easier to get a copy of Win 7 and use it then?  WinXP went out of service 10 years, or so, ago, and people still use it. 

Even if Win 10 pushes some update saying, "Only run apps bought from the windows store", I imagine that what will happen is that folks will basically turn off Windows Update for good at that point and never upgrade again, which is as simple as:

1) Type Services in Start menu or taskbar search box and then press Enter key. Alternatively, you can type Services.msc in Run command box and then press Enter key to open Services.

2) Here, look for the service named Windows Updates. Right-click on it and click Properties to open Windows Update Properties dialog.

3) Here, change the Startup type to Disabled. Click Apply button and then reboot your computer. That’s it!

**************************

By default, I keep windows update disabled on my machine (as well as search, index, and cortana, as well as a few other stupid pieces of windows junk).  The day when Win 10 decides "the apps you create yourself won't work on your own machine" is the day I simply stop upgrading to newer versions of windows...
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: Pete on November 06, 2018, 01:33:21 pm
Quote
I have been abandoned too often. The loss of my VB6 work and knowledge is my biggest frustration and I won't be bitten again.

I've been on that bus, and it ain't a nice ride. My software worked perfectly in QBasic, but that was abandoned. The programs with SHELL didn't work in DOSBox, because DOSBox doesn't do DOS worth a SOD. My best paint program was PhotoMagix, which only worked up through Win XP. Coral bought the guy out, and the product went FUBAR. Paint.net is decent, but no where near as intuitive and easy for creating great results as PhotoMagix was. Windows Movie maker was decent for simple edits, but now it's not in WIn 10, and Outlook Express was my favorite in XP, but I learned to like Live Mail in WIn 7... and then they scrapped that in Win 10. Now I just suffer through Blunderturd, another stupid web-based app.

They say in time, computers get smarter. That's a good thing, because the people who design the software systems just keep getting dumber and dumber.

Pete
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: SMcNeill on November 06, 2018, 02:14:35 pm
Quote
I have been abandoned too often. The loss of my VB6 work and knowledge is my biggest frustration and I won't be bitten again.

I've been on that bus, and it ain't a nice ride. My software worked perfectly in QBasic, but that was abandoned. The programs with SHELL didn't work in DOSBox, because DOSBox doesn't do DOS worth a SOD. My best paint program was PhotoMagix, which only worked up through Win XP. Coral bought the guy out, and the product went FUBAR. Paint.net is decent, but no where near as intuitive and easy for creating great results as PhotoMagix was. Windows Movie maker was decent for simple edits, but now it's not in WIn 10, and Outlook Express was my favorite in XP, but I learned to like Live Mail in WIn 7... and then they scrapped that in Win 10. Now I just suffer through Blunderturd, another stupid web-based app.

They say in time, computers get smarter. That's a good thing, because the people who design the software systems just keep getting dumber and dumber.

Pete

You do know that you can still use Live Mail, if you want?  It's just MS Deltasync which no longer works.

Quote
Microsoft's Windows Live Mail 2011 and 2012 continue to work with Hotmail e-mail accounts by using IMAP (or, less effectively, POP) in place of DeltaSync. Gmail and other service providers still support DeltaSync, so users can still use Windows Live Mail with non-Microsoft email accounts.

For that much, Mail is a decent upgrade to Live Mail, and it's free:  https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/p/mail-and-calendar/9wzdncrfhvqm?activetab=pivot:overviewtab

PhotoMagiX simply went on to change names over time, as Corel developed it, and it's now Photoshop Pro.  You just have to spend $$$ to get the new version.

And Windows Movie Magic still works fine as well.  Grab a copy and install:  https://archive.org/details/wlsetup-all_201802

Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: Pete on November 06, 2018, 02:59:06 pm
Photoshop Pro is nothing like Photomagix. Companies often buy other brands out to eliminate competition. PhotoMagix was the easiest most straight forward way to work with photos and web art I've ever experienced. Think of it as needing a #2 pencil, and some pinhead dumps 600 different kinds of pencils on your desk. Good luck going straight in and finding the #2, and when you do, it requires sharpening and the eraser is half eaten off but that's OK, it comes in a rainbow design with luminescent lettering on the sides. No thanks.

As for Windows Live Mail working, well, there are posts about it needing .Net 3 framework, the installation timing out, etc. I liken this crap to spinning on broken glass. Step one, acquire stool. Step 2, break a beer bottle on the stool (It helps if you drink the contents first) Step 3, sit on broken glass and spin. I would want Live Mail to work on my internet provider account , like it did on 7 but if you ever find something from seven that can be installed to 10 without the 7-day ASCII %^&*$#@, let me know.

https://windowsreport.com/windows-live-mail-windows-10/

Pete
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: _vince on November 06, 2018, 06:28:01 pm
The loss of my VB6 work and knowledge is my biggest frustration

sounds like a blessing
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: Bert22306 on November 06, 2018, 09:21:16 pm
Totally agree with you, Pete (and the others too).

The one silver lining of VB6 dying was that I was just about to migrate from QuickBasic 7.1 to VB6, when VB6 was dropped. So while looking around for options, and using DOSbox as a temporary workaround (big performance hit), I discovered QB64.

And not just that. But the one most important computer model I developed in QuickBasic worked first time, no problems, graphics included. Damn that was great! I really had my fingers crossed. Some other programs were slightly less successful, but I managed to fix all the glitches quickly enough. (Since then, most of these have been updated to use QB64 features, so there's no going back.)

M$ used to have a really good Windows Media Center, in Windows 7, and then they became thoroughly incompetent with media, in Win10. It's amazing. They even sold (maybe still do) some sort of DVD Player in the Windows Store, and it doesn't even work! At least, not for most copyrighted material. I'd be embarrassed working there, honestly.

Ditto with Windows Live Mail. It was a very decent e-mail client, where instead, Win10 Mail is amazingly primitive. I realize you can continue to use Live Mail, but when it's dropped from the menu, sooner or later, it won't work.

I like Win10 well enough, although I have to say, some changes were quite obviously made "just for the sake of change." It's just hard to understand how M$ can deliberately show this new level of incompetence, for things like media and mail. Like they don't matter, or people don't use any of it. Pretty dumbass, if you ask me.

I guess most people know this. VLC Player is very good, for playing CDs and DVDs. They must have very good decoders, because CDs sound great. Better than they do with the Windows Media Player, last time I did a test. And VLC Player was recently updated to work with 4K monitors and High Dynamic Range (HDR). So, easy workaround.
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: TerryRitchie on November 08, 2018, 01:22:04 pm
https://www.protondb.com/

The switch to Linux is coming ... it's just a matter of time.
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: Pete on November 08, 2018, 01:55:52 pm
You need FreeBASIC for that...

-Linux

:D

I decided to do like that Dutch guy and change my age. I'm going to be 25 again and start my own software company, MacroHard. I'll make great non-open source software, like a QB64 that runs on all platforms, including Android. I'll call it FeeBASIC.

Pete
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: krovit on November 12, 2018, 07:21:46 am
Hello everyone!

If I understand what you're talking about, soon - always too soon! - win10 will only accept programs made and controlled by it. The news makes me worry and anxiety.

It is a pious illusion to think to oppose win10. The jump of "quality" from win7 has been impressive in terms of privacy, control, management, and much, much more. It's also an ethical problem!

Linux, ubuntu and similar ...? Some operating systems is friendly, others are not, but all are difficult for those unfamiliar with computers and operating systems. In the professional field it is difficult to say to use Libreoffice rather than Office... let alone an entire operating system.

The developers of open source programs, then - forgive me if I say it - are too proud to admit that certain and exclusive cervellotic choices make their software almost unutilized and good only for convinced nerds.
Those communities are often very exclusive and sectarian societies and their usefulness in the end is almost nothing!
Oh! Of course it is not the case of QB64 which is really a family community, friendly and reasonable, always well disposed even with those who are used to asking rather than giving. A very commendable and amusing exception that makes us all participate and confident.

Microsoft has a million faults but the use of its software has always been very friendly and intuitive. Some times I tried to ask for some simplifications to software developed by certain communities and the only result was to be banned and insulted!

No ... if you really win10 - that a system with a billion problems you see and 100 billion problems that are not seen ... - will prevent third-party software from working will be the end... Also for QB64... (nooooo! I do not want this).

I really hope I'm wrong or I did not understand the problem ...



Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: bplus on November 12, 2018, 08:26:33 am
Quote
The developers of open source programs, then - forgive me if I say it - are too proud to admit that certain and exclusive cervellotic choices make their software almost unutilized and good only for convinced nerds.

cervellotic? https://meta.mathoverflow.net/questions/1888/is-a-perhaps-somewhat-cervellotic-but-not-hard-question-regarding-mathematical

Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: krovit on November 12, 2018, 08:45:33 am
Sorry!
you understand well that I do not speak English ....

cervellotic = unnecessarily complicated; full of arguments that wrap themselves even if the solution would be simple (yes, from the italian language)



Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: SMcNeill on November 12, 2018, 02:19:19 pm
<content removed>

The English term, which we usually hear for this, would be some tense of, "obfuscate".
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: Bert22306 on November 12, 2018, 08:43:23 pm
I don't know what could possibly befuddle you guys. Cervellotic made perfect sense to me.

But Krovit, people are making worst-case scenarios here, so hopefully things won't be so bad. The reason Microsoft has been so overwhelmingly successful in the business world is that it is not a closed-in ecosystem like Apple. If they become too closed-in and greedy, it can't end well for them. People would migrate to Linux.

(In my early days of using PCs, the only thing Microsoft I was using was DOS.)
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: krovit on November 14, 2018, 06:06:36 am
Thank you, Bert22306
I hope to make mistakes, but history teaches and the premises are unfavorable
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: TempodiBasic on November 16, 2018, 01:49:40 pm
Hi Krovit
fine your italian-English!
about
Quote
I hope to make mistakes, but history teaches
I remember a saying only those who do nothing can not make mistakes
so mistakes teach us what to do to get mistakes and if we have memory we can go along different paths...
Title: Re: The future of QB64
Post by: krovit on November 30, 2018, 04:54:14 am
sorry... i was wrong post