QB64.org Forum
Active Forums => QB64 Discussion => Topic started by: TempodiBasic on September 27, 2021, 04:58:44 am
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Hi boys and girls of QB64
I'm writing here for my disappointment.
Yes because I see growing up this community and QB64 everyday.
The efforts (also made in hobbyistic manner) so professional both of developers both of you, people of QB64 community, are intensive and continuous.
Here the cause of my disappointment : the invisibility.
. https://www.slant.co/topics/9807/~basic-like-programming-languages (http://. https://www.slant.co/topics/9807/~basic-like-programming-languages)
What is the cutoff for visibility?
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Tempo, all active members heartily agree with you. Getting this site out into the World-Wide Community is something that we all desire. As well as us complete-amateur coders, we have some skilled professionals. I wonder if a Group (here or on Discord) could think of ways to promote QB64 widely? Unless I have been dreaming, I think that Ashish has said that QB64 is being taught in schools. The QB64 Team deserve better.
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The QB64 Team deserve better.
Donation pay would be nice idea.
After reading the title this came to mind: "In my best remembrance of Casablanca"
There are QB64 competitors ?, I am shocked I tell you. Shocked.
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The QB64 Team deserve better
In the sense Qwekey mentions, best course of action is to spread the word. Let people know about QB64.
Right now we're in a comfortable place financially. Expenses paid for.
Thanks to all our Patrons for that.
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I've added QB64 as a recommendation to this site. We'll see if it starts appearing to others.
EDIT: Also I noticed that the website they use to get QB64 is the [abandoned, outdated and now likely malicious qb64 dot net website - don’t go there], not the .org site.
RE-EDIT: I fixed the link in my recommendation, but not sure it will fix it if someone else does a recommendation.
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I doesn't trust that site. Definitely, this is dishonesty, an insult. They will probably only mention those who will pay them. They obviously make money on advertising.
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That may be true, but getting the word out by any means can only help.
If my recommendation does appear, you all should add your own comment and click the recommend button on it. This may push it up to the top ones.
Just a thought.
I doesn't trust that site. Definitely, this is dishonesty, an insult. They will probably only mention those who will pay them. They obviously make money on advertising.
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I think we need more game\software that tell of QB64 out there. If you notice when I do the intros to stuff I'm working on I mention QB64, ie; Dragon Warrior(Powered by QB64) on Itch.io. The short lived podcast and Fellippe's videos. Things like that reach a slightly wider audience, but we could really use more. More games on platforms like Itch.io, more videos\tutorials on Youtube or its like. Give people a reason to check QB64 out and see just what it is.
And who knows how much harm the usurped .NET site may be doing. though not a whole lot we can do about that.
Perhaps once I get some better hardware\equipment we could have more podcasts.
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I agree. I am currently working on a large application that integrates mySQL and Zenity for Linux, and will be looking into openGL for cross-platform use.
We have a lot of talented coders here, and we must also get our code out to the public too.
I think we need more game\software that tell of QB64 out there. If you notice when I do the intros to stuff I'm working on I mention QB64, ie; Dragon Warrior(Powered by QB64) on Itch.io. The short lived podcast and Fellippe's videos. Things like that reach a slightly wider audience, but we could really use more. More games on platforms like Itch.io, more videos\tutorials on Youtube or its like. Give people a reason to check QB64 out and see just what it is.
And who knows how much harm the usurped .NET site may be doing. though not a whole lot we can do about that.
Perhaps once I get some better hardware\equipment we could have more podcasts.
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I think TikTok offers a great opportunity. The young people are still there, I see it at home. With Youtube ... yeah, good too, but it takes time for videos to be published more often. I know exactly what I'm talking about.
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This is my opinion... for what it is worth... QB64, like most other programming languages, will only continue if people's perception of it continues... Not necessarily its visibility... When I was a child, computers occupied a room, not a desktop. Programmers were put up on pedestals and looked up to... 1963 brings about Basic and the status of programmer is gradually shifting because of a programming language is designed with "Beginners" in mind. Since 1963, Basic, has been perceived as a language for Beginners. Like the way the military use 'basic' training, to acclimate enlistees, to the rigours of the military. 'That' kind of training is perceived as useful for beginners. Qbasic; Quickbasic; Visualbasic etc... are perceived by, not just programmers, as useful for beginners. So, regardless of the methods of advertising QB64, until we change people's 'perception' of Basic, it will be forever allocated to the hobbyist and beginner. Just a few thoughts...
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QB64 is expanding. Perhaps not in the ways that everyone likes or the speed they would hope for. I, too, wish it was more widespread and well-known. It never hurts to advertise it yourself. Make some GitHub repositories using QB64 code. Share your projects/tutorials on social media. Fork QB64 and make some radical changes. Personally, I'm doing a little something on the side (that will take an extremely long time) to rewrite QB64 as best I can in Python. I have named the project YellowJacket. I'm not going to share the project with anyone yet (except a closed group of people on Discord) so as to not steal away time and effort from people working on/with QB64. I'm going at a leisurely pace as well, so I expect it will take me a considerable amount of time to bring it to a point where I'd be comfortable sharing and testing it publicly.
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One of the best ways to change perception is to 'show' people what your program can do... referring to QB64 and not 'Yellowjacket'.. (well, not yet...)
The one thing I like most of all about QB64 is the help system... Each command is explained and accompanied with examples... Cut and paste gold mine.
Just think how much more popular QB64 could be if, like you had inferred, a GitHub (or similar site) was purely dedicated to what QB64 can do... Not just games but multiple categories - I am not disregarding the Wiki page - but a site that "shows off" QB64's abilities... Seeing is believing...
Best of luck with Yelowjacket... Do you have a timetable set for the first release?
J
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@johnno56 Oh, definitely not. I'm trying not to promise any sort of schedule. I'm working on this in free time and I'm also learning as I go. This will be something you might not necessarily hear about again for quite some time.
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Just wondering about this idea on mine (to help widen the QB64 user base).
I gather that @George McGinn and @Petr were referring to the "recently (2017-2018) revived (???) site"
QB64.not [ don't go there ...]
not to be confused with my archives from the (2008 - 2016) site of a similar name that many here "enjoyed" and 'trusted" (the original 2008 site that is).
Although @odin and @FellippeHeitor have not particularly shown interest in my archives (to "inject" into QB64.org) to "fill the void" regarding Network54 (was it ???) to QB64.org - and so consequently which I have not been trying/offering to do so myself - I was thinking (the really dangerous part) of ...
From approximately 10,000 web pages of QB64.(2008-2016).net to start "uploading" the archives onto QB64.(2017-2018).net itself. Now on the assumption that either or both the QB64.not site is malicious (etc) and/or it is part of a big advertising campaign (to make money only) and/or perhaps it is just all a big "hoax" - if approached "carefully" by me - MAYBE the truth of the situation will eventually come out for all to see.
Now, for the sake of this reply, again "carefully" approaching QB64.not with the uploads - by careful modification of the uploads by me - effectively "advertise" QB64.org (e.g. by way of links to QB64.org, "popular QB64.not topics" (that maybe still Google et al still come up with in the searches)). The idea is to say use a site (QB64.not) which may be getting tons of $ from advertising, to mention QB64.org.
Of course, @odin @FellippeHeitor and many others here may not like the idea (to try out - fair enough) - and any advice regarding this "dangerous idea" would be appreciated (probably resulting in "don't go there...").
So it may be that one million (???) views per year to a "bogus" site could be potentially one million "redirects" to QB64.org.
Above is just a thought...
Thanks for reading this.
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@BSpinoza
Thanks because your links have brought some good news...
see here
https://mikkegoes.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/The-most-popular-programming-languages-in-2020-TIOBE-Index-November-2020.png (https://mikkegoes.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/The-most-popular-programming-languages-in-2020-TIOBE-Index-November-2020.png) 2019 and 2020 VisualBasic in 6 position!
and here your link of codecamp " 20 best programming languages for kids..."
at first there is BASIC https://www.codecamp.com.au/blog/20-best-programming-languages-kids (https://www.codecamp.com.au/blog/20-best-programming-languages-kids)
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From the codecamp website:
Despite the popularity of Visual Basic in the 90s, BASIC has fallen by the wayside as a serious programming language. Still, it’s a great language for your younger kids to try if they want to get their feet wet in real programming code.
I wonder if the writer has programmed in today's modern BASIC - like PowerBASIC and even QB64! I've worked at a few Fortune 100 companies where I wrote production code in PowerBASIC and even VisualBASIC (back in the late 1980's).
@BSpinoza
Thanks because your links have brought some good news...
see here
https://mikkegoes.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/The-most-popular-programming-languages-in-2020-TIOBE-Index-November-2020.png (https://mikkegoes.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/The-most-popular-programming-languages-in-2020-TIOBE-Index-November-2020.png) 2019 and 2020 VisualBasic in 6 position!
and here your link of codecamp " 20 best programming languages for kids..."
at first there is BASIC https://www.codecamp.com.au/blog/20-best-programming-languages-kids (https://www.codecamp.com.au/blog/20-best-programming-languages-kids)
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The problem with BASIC — any sort of basic, really — is that they’re not really programming languages at the end of the day. They’re just a language translator; from old BAS syntax to C, which then compiles to the EXE behind the scenes.
Ask ANY business what they’d be willing to invest money in to train a new employee — for them to learn a new language, or for them to learn an obsolete language that’s only machine translated into a modern language.
If one wants to push the boundaries of what QB64 can do, then they have to use DECLARE LIBRARY and C-routines. Need to access the microphone? DECLARE LIBRARY. Text-to-Speech? DECLARE LIBRARY. Video playback? Https access? Printer functionality? Database access? All DECLARE LIBRARY. (Or external SHELLing to other utilities.)
To do more than just hobby-level coding, you need to use DECLARE LIBRARY for external functionality. Of course, to do that, you need to start learning some C to sort out the conversions and interactions…
…which ends up leaving a NEW programmer asking, “Why don’t I just learn and use C to begin with?”
BASIC is for old, outdated programmers, who are nostalgic for the look and feel of the 1980s and 1990s. It’s basically why we’ve always kept the IDE we have, despite all its flaws — basic nostalgia and familiarity.
As long as “Modern BASIC” is just a translation tool, it’ll never be able to catch up to, or stand alongside the other languages. For example, C might add some astonishing new library that unlocks the power of literal magic! QB64 would then need ten years to study the C source, find alternative versions to work across all platforms, and then add in a translation function for _CAST_SPELL and _PERFORM_RITUAL after all that…
BASIC at it currently exists is never going to go mainstream. Translators aren’t best selling Authors and they can’t compete with them in their fields. Translation Languages are more or less the same, when it comes to coding.
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Steve is, of course, right. The clue is in the acronym, "Beginner's All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code" (I bet the coding guys were really pleased with themselves when they came up with that acronym). Beginner: why would a professional organisation use a Basic thing when there are "proper" languages available? Perhaps a kind member might care to enlighten this idiot as to what "Python" is. It keeps cropping up, but I've no idea.
I think that we have said before that Galleon (et al) and now Fellippe et al have done wonders (and beyond) starting with QB45. But what (I think) Tempo was talking about was the lack of visibility of QB64, seeing its superb effectiveness of achievement particularly against other similar.
The world population is 7.8 billion, our membership is 524 (0.000007%), and many of these are "one-hit-wonders" who wanted one problem solving and who will never re-appear. We could do better.
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Ya but... you guys could be right when it comes to companies and professional use of a language but there is a huge audience out there of just ordinary people with computers who may want to tailor their own little routine for their own personal use, or maybe something for their kids. Basic can fill the gap of NONE professional use. I must admit my programs are far from professional grade but I do have some keeping track some stock investments, a small data base of recipes and another data base of just program codes and ideas I have had over the years. I have a grandson (was very young when I started to have kids) who is in university interested in a routine which will help him keep track of all the different cyrpto currencies. Apparently this is where those students are parking their spare money and speculating on paying off their student debt. I guess my point is.. what audience do we want to target for QB64 (or Basic )? I believe this community is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to spreading the popularity of the Basic language.
Not sure how old basic is but it's endurance is a testament to its utility over time.
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Tempo, all active members heartily agree with you. Getting this site out into the World-Wide Community is something that we all desire. As well as us complete-amateur coders, we have some skilled professionals. I wonder if a Group (here or on Discord) could think of ways to promote QB64 widely? Unless I have been dreaming, I think that Ashish has said that QB64 is being taught in schools. The QB64 Team deserve better.
I grew up with very elementary coding on an Apple IIe when I was quite young. Years later, as a Freshman in high school, I was introduced to the QB included the Windows 3.1 OS. As a senior in a different school, one of the math teachers taught a class in QB. I basically taught the class most of the time. The following semester I did the easiest independent study in the history of independent studies. So, yes, QB is taught in school.
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Steve is, of course, right. The clue is in the acronym, "Beginner's All-Purpose Symbolic Instruction Code" (I bet the coding guys were really pleased with themselves when they came up with that acronym). Beginner: why would a professional organisation use a Basic thing when there are "proper" languages available? Perhaps a kind member might care to enlighten this idiot as to what "Python" is. It keeps cropping up, but I've no idea.
I think that we have said before that Galleon (et al) and now Fellippe et al have done wonders (and beyond) starting with QB45. But what (I think) Tempo was talking about was the lack of visibility of QB64, seeing its superb effectiveness of achievement particularly against other similar.
The world population is 7.8 billion, our membership is 524 (0.000007%), and many of these are "one-hit-wonders" who wanted one problem solving and who will never re-appear. We could do better.
mennonite traded BASIC for Python a couple of years ago, and I haven't heard fro him, since. I remember early on he stated he didn't like it nearly as much as QB/QB64, but that he could see it was going to be what replaced BASIC as a popular beginner language. I can't say he was wrong about his assumption.
I think I recall Python being more library oriented. As such, it is a bit easier for beginners to build projects, but at the loss of customization we BASIC programmers enjoy. I think of lot of us BASIC coders love this tinker toy approach to making our projects the way we envision them. I don't think you can say that about the general programming populous. For instance, Notepad looks pretty simple, right? Well, as a library as user could add a text editor to a routine, but to code it from scratch, in BASIC, would take weeks, around 8,000 lines of code.
The two guys that did PowerBASIC had the right idea. They kept a DOS version, all very BASIC in dialect, but then added a Windows version, which was a bit C and Windows API-like. Maybe a similar approach should be entertained, here. Keep a "BASIC" version, but expand to a package that includes usable libraries and API routines that can be easily called by a single statement line of code.
Anyway, just kicking some stuff around, but for a better understanding of what type of catalyst gets a language in front of the masses, perhaps some members would like to research how Python was marketed. I do know schools are a huge inroad, and gaming communities are another, but the trick is to not just get occasionally used or mentioned, but to have some working plan that gains a great amount of acceptance with as little effort as possible. Of course big companies like Microsoft accomplish this with name recognition and carefully crafted slogans like "Windows, a world without walls." Well, as a friend of mine once posted..." If you don't have walls, who the hell needs windows!" Okay, so when you're as big as Microsoft, apparently any stupid slogan will do, but for the people trying to promote a language from a far less well accepted source, it's a higher level of activation that is needed to get the desired reaction from a much wider user base. Maybe Bill and his ADHD protons could help us tunnel our way through this challenge. Okay, now I'm just being goofy.
Pete
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Dimster,
"Not sure how old basic is but it's endurance is a testament to its utility over time."
Challenge accepted.
Invented by John G. Kemeny and Thomas E. Kurtz of Dartmouth College in Hanover, New Hampshire, BASIC was first successfully used to run programs on the school’s General Electric computer at 4am. May 1st, 1964.
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Nice job! Now tell us who invented FORTRAN but be prepared, I may punch holes in your post.
Pete :D
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Nice job! Now tell us who invented FORTRAN but be prepared, I may punch holes in your post.
Pete :D
Invented by John Backus for IBM in 1954, released commercially in 1957. Fortran is still used today for programming scientific and mathematical applications. Fortran began as a digital code interpreter for the IBM 701 and was originally named Speedcoding. John Backus wanted a programming language that was closer in appearance to human language, which is the definition of a high-level language, other high language programs include Ada, Algol, BASIC, COBOL, C, C++, LISP, Pascal, and Prolog.
I had to look that up - https://www.thoughtco.com/history-of-fortran-1991415 (https://www.thoughtco.com/history-of-fortran-1991415)
And yes, the only media back then (until the 1980's) to initially load programs into a computer was paper tape and punch cards.
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That's funny, I was reading Pete's post above, just read "mennonite" and the forum crashed!
Punch cards for Fortran (and Cobol) and dummy terminals for mainframe BASIC.
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That was a weird crash, too. Just a white blank page. I posted about it at QBF. Anyway, glad it's back.
Speaking of punch cards, that was my first experience with a computer. I had this dumbass chem professor and he required we stand in a long line to punch holes in FORTRAN cards for lab projects. It took about an hour to wait in a line, and another 30+ minutes to punch the cards. All this work could have been accomplished in about 5-minutes if it were handled in the traditional paper manner, but I'm sure it saved that a-hole (since we are on the subject of holes) a lot more time for an extended lunch. Needless to say I did not have a fond appreciation for computers back then. Lucky for me, I dropped his class, got a "real" teacher, and gave BASIC a look a few years later. The rest is history. Actually, everything including this post is history. The present just doesn't stick around for long.
Pete
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a nice video on how FORTRAN was created
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It's a good thing the folks in that video could make a computer statement, because they sure couldn't make a fashion statement! Dammit, now I have to go and revisit that whole personal pronoun thing again.
Pete
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Just wondering about this idea on mine (to help widen the QB64 user base).
I gather that @George McGinn and @Petr were referring to the "recently (2017-2018) revived (???) site"
QB64.not [ don't go there ...]
not to be confused with my archives from the (2008 - 2016) site of a similar name that many here "enjoyed" and 'trusted" (the original 2008 site that is).
Although @odin and @FellippeHeitor have not particularly shown interest in my archives (to "inject" into QB64.org) to "fill the void" regarding Network54 (was it ???) to QB64.org - and so consequently which I have not been trying/offering to do so myself - I was thinking (the really dangerous part) of ...
From approximately 10,000 web pages of QB64.(2008-2016).net to start "uploading" the archives onto QB64.(2017-2018).net itself. Now on the assumption that either or both the QB64.not site is malicious (etc) and/or it is part of a big advertising campaign (to make money only) and/or perhaps it is just all a big "hoax" - if approached "carefully" by me - MAYBE the truth of the situation will eventually come out for all to see.
Now, for the sake of this reply, again "carefully" approaching QB64.not with the uploads - by careful modification of the uploads by me - effectively "advertise" QB64.org (e.g. by way of links to QB64.org, "popular QB64.not topics" (that maybe still Google et al still come up with in the searches)). The idea is to say use a site (QB64.not) which may be getting tons of $ from advertising, to mention QB64.org.
Of course, @odin @FellippeHeitor and many others here may not like the idea (to try out - fair enough) - and any advice regarding this "dangerous idea" would be appreciated (probably resulting in "don't go there...").
So it may be that one million (???) views per year to a "bogus" site could be potentially one million "redirects" to QB64.org.
Above is just a thought...
Thanks for reading this.
QB64 actually got its start at Network54,and branched off into the .net site when N54 was hacked. The N54 site was completely restored, but it made sense to maintain a separate QB64 site at that time, as the language was really taking off. It's a shame that the site wasn't preserved. A lot of good projects and contributions were lost. What's left only has a fraction of the old stuff still on it. I spent some time there, digging into some older posts. All I found is a few posts intact, and a bunch of non-working links, which basically equated to a bunch of lost pages. I did not run across anything "malicious" at the time, but I still wouldn't trust the site. Why it's still up is beyond me. Whomever took it over, after Rob abandoned it, can't be very happy with whatever minuscule advertising dollars it may return. Unless, of course, he comes from country where psychological advice actually does cost 5-cents.
Pete
Pete
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@Pete If you look, the old site has been sold and traded hands several times in the last few years. I don’t know if it’s actually malicious, as it’s basically just a copy from the Internet Archives, but the guys holding it are some of the wholesale domain sellers.
My guess is one picked up the name for a steal when Galleon didn’t renew it, and they kept it for about a year or so, in an attempt to sell it back to him at inflated prices. When he didn’t take the bait, they bundled it up and sold it to another wholeseller at a discount…
Basically its just like the Fannie May and Freddy Mac bull-ship all over again, except with domain names instead of sub-prime mortgages.
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I'll buy that. Well, actually, I won't buy it, but I'll accept it. Domain resellers sort of shoot themselves in the foot by inventing too many extensions, which drives domain values down. I still remember the idiot who owned business.com,and turned down a $10,000,000 offer, because he thought it was worth a lot more. Now he wishes he invested in outofbusiness.com, as it better reflects his current state of affairs.
Pete
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about FORTRAN:
I remember that my brother was studing an exam about programming, the only one exam into its student career about PC and programming.
In those days (1996-2000) my brother was bored because he didn't love PC (also today it is so his vision of a brutal stupid machine) and I took a look at Fortran (it was Fortran77) and I thought "It seems an ancient BASIC" and so we studied together for the development part of that exam. After he got the exam and forgot the programming world.
about BASIC transcompilers
look at here at BACON... http://www.basic-converter.org (http://www.basic-converter.org)
there are many different other people interested to have a BASIC in the modern era and so they choose to use a BASIC that will be translated into C/C++ to code/create programs using BASIC. (first link points to us)
About development and maintenance of QB64:
Surely this is an aspect to think about for take good direction on development of QB64. These other persons share with us the same idea: BASIC forever.
Another aspect is that Steve points out:
nowaday a powerful language with no points of contact with productivity world is still a nostalgic hobbist language...no more.
That I try to say is: if I use another professional power language I always must use a framework or library or driver or whatotheryouthinkneeded to work on an aspect in developing application: for example writing in Java or Python or C++ I must use libraries or classes already done by others or frameworks to use OBDC or SQL databases, or for making graphic with Opengl or SDL or Unreal engine, or for WWW applications.
Alternatively I must jump from a language to another one having as goal to use the most useful language for that task.
....
we have a prebuilt library all_in-One coming from QB45 and powedred by _QB64statements.
Maybe we need more separated library to use at need, like in the other modern languages.
Thanks for reading, for talking and for giving me feedbacks also for being better my english!
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SWAP being_better_my_english!
, improving_my_English!
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sprigsy...
long time) to rewrite QB64 as best I can in Python
..so on that way you will increase python popularity more ...sending message how
python is "powerful".
BSpinoza:
Not only QB64 but all BASICs are forgotten, nearly everywhere!
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it would be hard to initiate a resurrection ... an ugly Python swallows all older programming languages (except C).
yes i agree with you 1000%
look ...i am not real QB64 user ..but in general i like and use basic in all my programming ,,,yeah powerful one
SMc:
The problem with BASIC — any sort of basic, really — is that they’re not really programming languages at the end of the day. They’re just a language translator; from old BAS syntax to C, which then compiles to the EXE behind the scenes.
and you are wrong ...I am using Oxygen Basic which compile directly into machine code ( to exe).
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SMc:
and you are wrong ...I am using Oxygen Basic which compile directly into machine code ( to exe).
Do you have a link to it? Only Oxygen Basic I know is this one: https://sourceforge.net/projects/oxygenbasic/
And, from what I understand about it, it’s a translation language as well, rather than a direct compiler. “ Compact embeddable JIT compiler that reads C headers and compiles to x86 machine code. ”
There’s still C involved before the EXE is created.
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Doesn't Python only "compile" to bytecode?
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Yes.
Doesn't Python only "compile" to bytecode?
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Yes Steve that one ...
and again you wrong ...download and if you find any connection with C that would be miracle.
it is stated that can read C headers because of syntax and nothing more ...
there is no any C compiler involved .
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Don't know about what others do, but I've been using QuickBasic for real work, for years. No problem.
Started with Fortran in college, then had to switch to Basic, on a remote a time sharing system, in grad school. Used that same time sharing system at my first job. Then used the HP Basic, at a remote work site, on an HP 9830. And then, when we got our first IBM PS/2s at work, just for the hell of it, I typed "basic" at the DOS c:\ prompt. Surprise! There was my Advanced Basic IDE, right in front of me.
Then QBasic appeared, with the better IDE. I always used those at work. Who could possibly complain? The company didn't have to shell out any more money, and just about anyone can understand Basic code.
Then, in spite of its "invisibility," when I got a 64-bit PC with a 64-bit Windows, I had to find a better way to keep using Basic. Hey, I just used a search engine, and found this "invisible" QB64, no problem. And not just that, but unlike the previous transitions, all my programs worked. A couple had minor bugs, but this was as pain-free a transition as ever.
I've never had anyone complain about using Basic. One C programmer only said it makes his head hurt. Other than that, as far as work goes, I'm not sure who can possibly complain, or on what grounds.
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..so on that way you will increase python popularity more ...sending message how
python is "powerful".
That isn't the idea at all, @Aurel . The plan is to increase popularity of QB64 by association and to provide an interpreted BASIC. People already know that Python is powerful. That's why it is so widely used. Really not any different from how C/C++ was used to make QB64. It's just the medium used to create QB64
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Python, Python, Python. I liked it better when FreeBAISC was our arch enemy. We really need to get back to our roots.
Pete :D
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and you are wrong
python is your arch enemy not FreeBasic, i can bet that 50% of code can be used in both
and basic is basic
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hey boys
why are you fighting about python and BASIC?
I started this thread to talk of visibility of QB64 for its power (Opengl and _NewPowerfulStatements)
more than for its backward compatibility (high compatibility with QB45 and something of QB PDS 7.1).
when i found QB64 it claimed a high backward compatibility to QB45 and an extension to Os Windows, MacOs, Linux and Android .
After some time extension to android was dropt out, in the while QB64 has turned from SDL to Opengl. Some fans has gone away for some issue of backcompatibility (no low level support but limited emulation).
I stay here in this community for using a Modern BASIC despite its backward compatibility, not to compile a 16bit program!
I find very warm and with good feedbacks these community, and this is much on this cold web.
Tune up on the half filled glass.
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You are wrong! HA! ( @Aurel) :-)
BASIC is only BASIC if you use the core features, like LET A=B, GOSUB, GOTO, IF/THEN/ELSE, etc.
Even in some of the older BASIC, ELSE isn't valid. Same with SELECT/CASE.
Also, if your QB64 program is using METACOMMANDS, good luck finding Equivalent commands in any BASIC.
Also, I use TechBASIC and SmartBASIC on my iPad to develop some mobile Apps. Try porting those over to any BASIC. They just don't hunt. The GUI is completely different, they use some Objective C conventions, and only the BASIC from 1978 is comparable!
And try porting VisualBASIC to any dialect of it!
This may have been true in the 1908's and possibly the early 90's, but not today.
and you are wrong
python is your arch enemy not FreeBasic, i can bet that 50% of code can be used in both
and basic is basic
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Talking here about BASIC or QB64 not good enough anymore for professional purposes.
There are several QB64 programs by my hand running on Windows Servers at work, as "glue" or diagnostic tools, or report generators.
QB64 suits the job perfectly if you ask me.
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When you think about it, they are really C/C++ programs. QB64 is a converter. I don't know about gaming, but for business purposes, QBASIC was every bit as useful as any so-called professional language. Maybe even better. It's faster to code in BASIC. No pointers, no dimming everything. With QB64, we didn't even need to DECLARE SUBS. So maybe it's just a stigma, but if in today's times full grown adults chose to take gummy vitamins, well, sign me up for an extra helping of TinkerToy BASIC.
Pete
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Winning a competition like Syntax Bomb's is a way to show QB64 is as good as any other.
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I just checked, and QB64 is now listed 5th for best BASIC-like languages, even beating out PowerBASIC!
Keep rating it.
https://www.slant.co/topics/9807/~basic-like-programming-languages (https://www.slant.co/topics/9807/~basic-like-programming-languages)
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I'd rate the site it's rated on at a 2 out of 10. It's an add heavy site, and sluggish beyond belief.
Pete
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I guess PowerBASIC and VisualBASIC is paying as much as QB64!
I'd rate the site it's rated on at a 2 out of 10. It's an add heavy site, and sluggish beyond belief.
Pete
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https://www.slant.co/topics/9807/~basic-like-programming-languages (https://www.slant.co/topics/9807/~basic-like-programming-languages)
Who is the dork, who challenged the developers here. Was he someone who is trolling, or got mad because "We" may have pointed out a blonder of his.
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Who is the dork, who challenged the developers here. Was he someone who is trolling, or got mad because "We" may have pointed out a blonder of his.
Probably the ex-member who cannot be named. Just try it yourself... Type a message and insert the name code...hunter without the dots. Your message will autocorrect to [banned user] automatically!
Voldemort hell! We have our own He-who-shall-not-be-named!! LOL!!
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Whoa, you guys really got us in the list. Kudos y'all. ❤️
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Who is the dork, who challenged the developers here. Was he someone who is trolling, or got mad because "We" may have pointed out a blonder of his.
Blonder? I love it! A blunder that blonds make!
Hey did you guys know the grammatically preferred American and Canadian spelling is blond, instead of blonde, but in French, blond is used to to identify men with yellowish hair, while blonde is used to identify women with yellowish hair? Does this mean in France if you don't identify as male or female, you have to become a brunette? And now, back to our regular forum topic...
Yes, I was able to read some of the comments at that ratings site, despite the forever page loading with ads, and the #1 reason to use QB64 was... It's FREE! Whoopee, there's a stellar endorsement. I guess it's somehow cheaper than those other no-cost BASIC languages. Hey I wonder what ever happened to Walt? He was last working on a project he called Crystal BASIC. I can see the ad for that now. There's Steve. We replaced his regular version of QB64 with new BASIC Crystals. I wonder if he'll noticed. (Play on an old Folger's coffee commercial, for those of you who are from the post-Jurasic period). Anyway, BASIC doesn't make most lists of other ranking sites for the top 20 programming languages of 2021. Many of those sites are aimed at careers, and BASIC is just not considered a language used for career work. Even back in the day it was considered a way for non-career oriented folk to enjoy the ability to write programs on home computers. So while I cannot see people preferring the syntax of those other non-BASIC languages over BASIC, the human failing of follow the popularity has always outweighed the choice of practicality. In computer science, this outweighing is so pronounced the scales were not just tipped, but they were completely tipped over.
The tremendous success QB64 has is completing the goal of QB compatibility, along with its continued support, and development. No need to add some -lang compatibility switch, as with a certain "to remain unnamed" short bus to C language. Too bad QB64 missed out on the mobile market. I guess Rob dropped his remake QB64 as a JAVA translator venture. (For those of you who don't know, C C++, which is the code QB64 translates into, can only be used in part to write Android apps). As for Apple, I believe you need Objective-C, although I have read that OpenGL games can be uploaded to Apple mobile devices. I'm not sure if this is true. For now, it looks like the QB64 debugger / interpreter addition will aid us in helping any real new coders but it would take a solid plan to find and attract these newcomers. I'm sure the site George mentioned would be happy to cram yet another ad in it for us, just don't expect it to be free. Schools, at least here in the US, will not promote software unless there is some deal with the state, although charter schools can be approached, but still have acceptance standards they would prefer be met. In other words, if you are a nationally known organization, you stand a chance. So where could QB64 be showcased? My stab at it would be to eventually create a DIY site that showcases finished projects, Flappy Bird comes to mind, with videos that show how such projects can be put together in QB64. That would give us a bigger YTube audience. I'd figure who wouldn't want to send a friend for a free download of some fun or useful app, and maybe 1 out of 10 would be curious enough to want to download QB64 to start making their own stuff. Obviously adding OOP and extensive use libraries would make it more attractive, but here we go again, flying in the face of BASIC as a teaching language. I hope if the developer(s) ever go this route, a current copy of QB64 gets named and preserved and better still, what follows is renamed, much like PowerBASIC for DOS and PowerBASIC for Windows, but using better nomenclature, please. We certainly could run PowerBASIC for DOS on Windows. Oh, let's not go with QB64 OOPS, for obvious reasons. Maybe QB64 Pro?
Pete
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Hey I wonder what ever happened to Walt?
Banned too. Anyone who's willing to go public saying "I'm out to destroy the product and the QB64 Team" is not welcome.
I appreciate you guys don't bring them up around again.
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I was not aware he made those statements, or maybe I just forgot. It's been awhile.
Pete
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Blonder? I love it! A blunder that blonds make!
It was a blunder to say blonder. But looking back now I like blonder more.
kinda sums it up. A freebee two-fer.
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Well like I always say, "It takes a big man to admit Steve is wrong!" I know, this humor stuff, right? It's why I can rest a little easier now with extended editing back. Before that occurred, I made a post where I wrote something while thinking of Larry the Cable guy... shut up, Steve, this has nothing to do with that scene from Deliverance. I mean about his "The Right to Bare Arms," bit. So since I had that going through my head, I actually posted it that way. Lucky for me, the 5-minute sh*t clock hadn't run out yet. Yeah, edit: The Right to Bear Arms. Whew, what a blonder that would have been for me! Now if you will excuse me, the bear called, and he wants his right arm back.
Pete
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Pete's wife must be singing my praises again. That's about the twelfth time he's mentioned me in a post this evening.
I'm sorry Pete. She just finds my Halloween costume -- a banana peel themed pair of undies -- much sexier than your two walnuts on a string!
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Bananas? Well then like the old saying goes, "Don't get a bunch in you your panties."
Pete
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I’ll chime in and give my 2 cents. I know I have not been a frequent poster on the forum, but I can tell you that I have been making good use of QB64 since I discovered it about a year and a half ago. QB64 is already amazing and it is becoming better and better! Yes, it would be great if it was at the top of the list of the worlds programming languages, but don’t forget that it is already amazing that it has gotten this far and that it is improving.
The QB45 compatibility and familiarity of the interface were the main things that drew me in and made me stay with it instead of going with one of the alternatives I found. To me, the interface was not a drawback but an asset. Although I had largely been away from programming for years, I could pick it up and run with it almost immediately because of the prior QB45 and VB6 syntax knowledge.
I think that I represent a type of QB64 user (and I think there are many others like me) who either use QB64 or who would be excited to use it if they discovered it: I am the middle aged user who started out with BASIC as a child/teenager and got reasonably good at it, but did not have a need to move to another language because BASIC did everything I needed all the way through graduate school and beyond. My day job is not being a programmer so what a professional programmer needs or uses is of lesser importance to me. What is most important is that I am able to come up with an idea and implement it using a language that I know (instead of having to start from zero by learning a new language first before I can implement the idea). I solve problems, and QB64 has enabled me to relatively quickly write programs that help me solve these problems. The extended functionalities (especially the clipboard functions and image handling functions) have been extremely useful. QB64 enabled me to write programs that daily save me tremendous amounts of time. I really appreciate the developers who are keeping QB64 alive and improving, and I appreciate everyone on the forum who responded the times that I did post questions on the forums. I believe that if I had known about QB64 years ago, I would have been using it already back then. It is also exciting to see it become more and more useful. For example, these new debugging features that are being worked on will be game changers.
Again, I believe there must be many like me who do not know about QB64, but who would use it if they knew. How can those people be reached?
Another type of potential user would be a younger person without prior exposure to/love of BASIC. What can be done to reach such a person?
In any case, QB64 is extremely useful to me. Although I usually don’t have time to participate in the discussions on the forum, I often read them and often learn something from them. Keep up the good work!
L
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@LM That was a good read, and most importantly, it helped me get that awful image of Steve out of my mind. What I'd like to know is how many people would get a copy of QB64 if they knew it would run everything they used to code in QBasic, and without the need for DOSBox or some other emulator? Although I do find it ironic DOSBox has an Android version. If I want to run my QBasic / QB64 apps, without new keywords of course, on Android, I could by using DosBOX Turbo. Seriously, I've always felt if QB64 could be adapted for mobile devices, we'd have a much easier time of gaining favorable exposure. I mean the best thing about QB64 is certainly not that it is just free. Besides, if you download a copy in the next 30-minutes, because we can't do this all day, you'll also receive a free SCREEN 0 tee shirt. Just pay separate shipping and handling.
Pete
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Nice to hear from you @LM, your comments are spot on to me.